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two brothers exhaust

D

donwhite333

Big Wheel
I would like the BLACK Two Brothers slip on for my 2012. But my dealer says I must put in a Power Commander at a cost of about $500 parts and labor. (Sure they want the work.)
The Two Brothers site says I don't need to do that , although it is desirable. (Sure they want to sell an exhaust)
I don't care if I have 5 more or 5 less HP.  Just want a good sound. I DO NOT WANT TO DAMAGE THE BIKE.
WHO DO I BELIEVE??????

Also what should I pay for the exhaust itself?  Who is best on line source?
 
I've been running a Two brothers black series for a year and a half with no issues and no power commander.
 
I have a two brothers black diamond on for two years now no fuel management..just like other guy said you will get some decibel pop but no worries.....buy it the sound is sweet
 
ZG said:
1warlock said:
I put on a two brothers black, bit the bullet and put on a power commander and gained 14 hp :)
Click to expand...

With just a slip-on?  ???
Click to expand...



I was wondering the very same thing....


Slipon No PC needed it.
Full exhaust."..Yes any kind of fuel management a must.
 
Sport Rider said:
you might get a little bit of dedel popping.  I get that with mine and a cs.1.  Nothing to worry about though.
Click to expand...

I just installed mine this AM. I have the ECU flash from 2 wheel dynoworks. Nel's wants to put it on the dyno and tweak it if necessary.
 
I really like the sound of the CS1. Mellow and not loud at all. perfect! But how to gid rid of the sputtering at the header midpipe joint?

I see a metal ring gasket on the stock pipe. Instructions did not say to use this part for a better seal.

Guess I am going to pull it off and see if I can get that gasket to fix the sputtering.
 
Run away from that dealer and never look back! I have over 10k miles on a TBR Carbon black slip-on and am very happy with it. No need for any additional installations or equipment either.
 
I ran a Two Brothers on my 2012 with no issues other than the annoying decel pop..

Got mine off ebay (new) pretty cheap..

 
gpd323 said:
I really like the sound of the CS1. Mellow and not loud at all. perfect! But how to gid rid of the sputtering at the header midpipe joint?

I see a metal ring gasket on the stock pipe. Instructions did not say to use this part for a better seal.

Guess I am going to pull it off and see if I can get that gasket to fix the sputtering.
Click to expand...

I had to use the aluminized exhaust repair tape and Inferno metal repair paste to seal up the leaks at both ends of the midpipe of my CS One. Otherwise the noxious exhaust fumes were just too much for me and my wife. Now I have no leaks, no fumes and it sounds great.  :)
 
I have the Muzzy slip on with no fuel management and no problems after 58,000 miles.  The deceleration popping can be cured by plugging a tube coming from the air cleaner box.  Search decel pop or some variation of that on the site and you'll find pictures and instructions.  I don't mind it myself and if I hold the throttle open very slightly while decelerating it doesn't happen.
 
Cold Streak said:
I have the Muzzy slip on with no fuel management and no problems after 58,000 miles.  The deceleration popping can be cured by plugging a tube coming from the air cleaner box.  Search decel pop or some variation of that on the site and you'll find pictures and instructions.  I don't mind it myself and if I hold the throttle open very slightly while decelerating it doesn't happen.
Click to expand...

http://www.holeshot.com/Concours_c14/c14decel_inst.html
 
Bigfoot_16 said:
gpd323 said:
I really like the sound of the CS1. Mellow and not loud at all. perfect! But how to gid rid of the sputtering at the header midpipe joint?

I see a metal ring gasket on the stock pipe. Instructions did not say to use this part for a better seal.

Guess I am going to pull it off and see if I can get that gasket to fix the sputtering.
Click to expand...

I had to use the aluminized exhaust repair tape and Inferno metal repair paste to seal up the leaks at both ends of the midpipe of my CS One. Otherwise the noxious exhaust fumes were just too much for me and my wife. Now I have no leaks, no fumes and it sounds great.  :)
Click to expand...

Ok, I was able to cure the sputtering at the header, still get some blow-by at the mid-pipe. I will try some metal tape used for furnaces.  :beerchug:
 
with the two brothers black, pcv the dyno doesn't lie...box stock the dyno showed 128hp ;D, with the pipe, pcv  the dyno showed 142hp. :motonoises:
Wonder or no that's what it showed :))
 
1warlock said:
with the two brothers black, pcv the dyno doesn't lie...box stock the dyno showed 128hp ;D, with the pipe, pcv  the dyno showed 142hp. :motonoises:
Wonder or no that's what it showed :))
Click to expand...
Thinking about doing the Guhl ECU flash over the Winter, so it also does something with the secondary flys, as opposed to just removing them.
 
1warlock said:
with the two brothers black, pcv the dyno doesn't lie...box stock the dyno showed 128hp ;D, with the pipe, pcv  the dyno showed 142hp. :motonoises:
Wonder or no that's what it showed :))
Click to expand...

Sorry bro, but...




FWIW, the C14 comes out of box at 133... So my only guess is whoever is doing yer dyno work has a dude behind the curtain doing funny business.  ???


 
ZG said:
1warlock said:
with the two brothers black, pcv the dyno doesn't lie...box stock the dyno showed 128hp ;D, with the pipe, pcv  the dyno showed 142hp. :motonoises:
Wonder or no that's what it showed :))
Click to expand...

Sorry bro, but...




FWIW, the C14 comes out of box at 133... So my only guess is whoever is doing yer dyno work has a dude behind the curtain doing funny business.  ???
Click to expand...

Now that's an interesting topic. When I bought my 2013, the dealer told me that the HP at the crank was 156. I've only seen rear wheel HP figures in the motorcycle mags. Kawi doesn't publish anything on their web site that I've been able to find.
 
ZG said:
1warlock said:
with the two brothers black, pcv the dyno doesn't lie...box stock the dyno showed 128hp ;D, with the pipe, pcv  the dyno showed 142hp. :motonoises:
Wonder or no that's what it showed :))
Click to expand...

Sorry bro, but...




FWIW, the C14 comes out of box at 133... So my only guess is whoever is doing yer dyno work has a dude behind the curtain doing funny business.  ???
Click to expand...
I trust this guy and I'm standing there watching. My disappointment was the stock HP :-\, I read a report when I was shopping for buying the C14 that the stock HP was out of the box 139HP, I assure you there was that much change :)
 
I'm not experienced with it, but as I understand, there can be variation between dyno machines.  from the sounds of the stock numbers, that could be the explanation there.  As to the "after" numbers, I've not heard of gains like that, but have no expertise to refute it either.

Perhaps someone with some experience will chime in with how these things are calibrated and trusted.
 
ZG said:
1warlock said:
with the two brothers black, pcv the dyno doesn't lie...box stock the dyno showed 128hp ;D, with the pipe, pcv  the dyno showed 142hp. :motonoises:
Wonder or no that's what it showed :))
Click to expand...

Sorry bro, but...




FWIW, the C14 comes out of box at 133... So my only guess is whoever is doing yer dyno work has a dude behind the curtain doing funny business.  ???
Click to expand...

Okay you say it makes 133 out of the box, his was down a bit, 5-hp that's certainly within a normal range, and then with a pipe and PCV it went to 142, what is so unbelievable about that. It is totally within a reasonable expectation. 14 hp with a pipe and a tune, you're talking 11%
 
spencer said:
ZG said:
1warlock said:
with the two brothers black, pcv the dyno doesn't lie...box stock the dyno showed 128hp ;D, with the pipe, pcv  the dyno showed 142hp. :motonoises:
Wonder or no that's what it showed :))
Click to expand...

Sorry bro, but...




FWIW, the C14 comes out of box at 133... So my only guess is whoever is doing yer dyno work has a dude behind the curtain doing funny business.  ???
Click to expand...

Okay you say it makes 133 out of the box, his was down a bit, 5-hp that's certainly within a normal range, and then with a pipe and PCV it went to 142, what is so unbelievable about that. It is totally within a reasonable expectation. 14 hp with a pipe and a tune, you're talking 11%
Click to expand...

With a full system, that would be right in line. I read it that he just did a slip-on, did I misread that?  ???

 
Anyone have the Two Brothers Exhaust with the Sound Reduction Tips installed?
Just curious if that makes it more like stock Noise Level wise?

THANKS!
 
ZG said:
spencer said:
ZG said:
1warlock said:
with the two brothers black, pcv the dyno doesn't lie...box stock the dyno showed 128hp ;D, with the pipe, pcv  the dyno showed 142hp. :motonoises:
Wonder or no that's what it showed :))
Click to expand...

Sorry bro, but...




FWIW, the C14 comes out of box at 133... So my only guess is whoever is doing yer dyno work has a dude behind the curtain doing funny business.  ???
Click to expand...

Okay you say it makes 133 out of the box, his was down a bit, 5-hp that's certainly within a normal range, and then with a pipe and PCV it went to 142, what is so unbelievable about that. It is totally within a reasonable expectation. 14 hp with a pipe and a tune, you're talking 11%
Click to expand...

With a full system, that would be right in line. I read it that he just did a slip-on, did I misread that?  ???
Click to expand...

That's how I understood it, slip on, not a ZX full system..

 
I get that it was only a slip on, which by itself is worth probably 5-hp and the PCV by itself is worth around another 5-hp. Sometimes the combination is worth more than the sum of its parts. The conditions could have changed between stock and mods, and maybe his stock exhaust was extremely restrictive and that's why his original number was low. I have seen a lot of dyno runs, enough to know that it is not outside the realm of possibility.
 
First of all the stock pipe weighed 20 pounds while the slip weighed in at 6 pounds so thats an advantage.

I purchased a Radio Shack digital sound level meter model 3300099 to measure the sound levels.  Readings were taken at one (1) foot from the end of the pipes on the "A" setting and fast sample.  Same spot in my garage with the door open for all tests.  Readings were taken at idle speed of approximately 1050 RPM.

The stock pipe read at 85dB.  The Two Brothers slip on read 95dB.  And the Two Brothers slip with P1X power tip sound reducer read at 91dB.

Also without the reducer the engine popped quite a bit on deceleration.

So, weight loss yes however the noise levels are a matter of my personal preference but I will leave the reducer in.

Stay tuned, Gerald
 
Texnotes said:
First of all the stock pipe weighed 20 pounds while the slip weighed in at 6 pounds so thats an advantage.

I purchased a Radio Shack digital sound level meter model 3300099 to measure the sound levels.  Readings were taken at one (1) foot from the end of the pipes on the "A" setting and fast sample.  Same spot in my garage with the door open for all tests.  Readings were taken at idle speed of approximately 1050 RPM.

The stock pipe read at 85dB.  The Two Brothers slip on read 95dB.  And the Two Brothers slip with P1X power tip sound reducer read at 91dB.

Also without the reducer the engine popped quite a bit on deceleration.

So, weight loss yes however the noise levels are a matter of my personal preference but I will leave the reducer in.

Stay tuned, Gerald
Click to expand...

Good info, Thanks Gerald !  :great:
 
1warlock said:
ZG said:
1warlock said:
with the two brothers black, pcv the dyno doesn't lie...box stock the dyno showed 128hp ;D, with the pipe, pcv  the dyno showed 142hp. :motonoises:
Wonder or no that's what it showed :))
Click to expand...

Sorry bro, but...




FWIW, the C14 comes out of box at 133... So my only guess is whoever is doing yer dyno work has a dude behind the curtain doing funny business.  ???
Click to expand...
I trust this guy and I'm standing there watching. My disappointment was the stock HP :-\, I read a report when I was shopping for buying the C14 that the stock HP was out of the box 139HP, I assure you there was that much change :)
Click to expand...
For one thing 128 is too low for a stock C14 at the rear wheel (not the crank).  Second thing is you should not gain any appreciable or noticeable increase in HP with any slip on exhaust.
Only the weight loss and the louder sound makes it faster on your butt  and in your head  but not on a dyno.
Would someone explain what does this part mean; 'with the pipe'  What does that mean? What pipe?
 
spencer said:
With all due respect to Daytona Mike, not all slip-on pipes are the same, and some DO increase HP.

http://www.superstreetbike.com/test-16-slip-exhaust-systems-pipes-installed-and-rated-pipe-dreams/?image=0
Click to expand...
Slow down there!! We are only talking about a C14 with the cat in the header. No other bikes ok.
Notice I said ' appreciable or noticeable' . All slip on'swill quote some form  of gains but most of those are typically at peak RPM and not where most of us ride our bikes. In some cases it will even lower mid range torque because of loss of back pressure. We are not talking about 2007 Suzuki GSX-R1000, 2007 Kawasaki ZX-14 and a 2008 Suzuki Hayabusa.

Put is this way- Dont buy a slip on and think your going to go faster on a C14 because of it (except for the instant weight loss). Dynos have shown little to no increase in HP and torque on the  C14's.
There have been a few posters here that have expressed this same disappointment.
This is why I am trying to help those that would read this thread and now  think they could go from 128 hp to 142 hp with any slip on. It is just not going to happen.
Loud does not mean 'more power'. Look at the link you posted. A new slip on got this increase and that would have been taken at red line 
An increase of  +0.7 hp+0.1 lb.-ft. I think that definitely falls into the not 'appreciable or noticeable' category. Some one could have  walked to close the the bike's intake while it was on the dyno and farted  to get those numbers.
 
1warlock said:
with the two brothers black, pcv the dyno doesn't lie...box stock the dyno showed 128hp ;D, with the pipe, pcv  the dyno showed 142hp. :motonoises:
Wonder or no that's what it showed :))
Click to expand...


A Slip on and a Power Commander (pcv) with a proper tune will give you these gains on a C14. Another COG member (shawnzilla) put down 145 with  only a Two Brothers and a PCIII. This was at sea level and the next bike on the dyno that day was a stock 2013 Zx1400. It showed right at 185 at the wheel. Maybe the dyno was a little off (high or low) but the Connie did show those gains.

Pat
 
Daytona_Mike said:
With all due respect to Daytona Mike, not all slip-on pipes are the same, and some DO increase HP.

http://www.superstreetbike.com/test-16-slip-exhaust-systems-pipes-installed-and-rated-pipe-dreams/?image=0
Click to expand...
Slow down there!! We are only talking about a C14 with the cat in the header. No other bikes ok.
Notice I said ' appreciable or noticeable' . All slip on'swill quote some form  of gains but most of those are typically at peak RPM and not where most of us ride our bikes. In some cases it will even lower mid range torque because of loss of back pressure. We are not talking about 2007 Suzuki GSX-R1000, 2007 Kawasaki ZX-14 and a 2008 Suzuki Hayabusa.

Put is this way- Dont buy a slip on and think your going to go faster on a C14 because of it (except for the instant weight loss). Dynos have shown little to no increase in HP and torque on the  C14's.
There have been a few posters here that have expressed this same disappointment.
This is why I am trying to help those that would read this thread and now  think they could go from 128 hp to 142 hp with any slip on. It is just not going to happen.
Loud does not mean 'more power'. Look at the link you posted. A new slip on got this increase and that would have been taken at red line 
An increase of  +0.7 hp+0.1 lb.-ft. I think that definitely falls into the not 'appreciable or noticeable' category. Some one could have  walked to close the the bike's intake while it was on the dyno and farted  to get those numbers.
[/quote]

The gain from 128-142 was with a slip-on AND a PCV, NOT just a slip-on. My original point was that it is possible to get to a gain like that with that combination. The purpose of the link was just to show that gains are possible with just a slip-on. Yes some gained less than 1-hp while the TBR gained 4.2 hp. I acknowledge they were not C14's, but I can't believe the difference would be much.

The other point I was trying to make originally was that if it only put down 128-hp to start with then either the stock pipe had an issue or the factory tune  was off enough to create the low number.

I never said that with a slip-on a 14 hp gain is normal or expected, etc.
 
spencer said:
The other point I was trying to make originally was that if it only put down 128-hp to start with then either the stock pipe had an issue or the factory tune  was off enough to create the low number.
Click to expand...
Or the most likely option is that the dyno has not been calibrated for a while.
I have seen some wild dyno numbers over the years and the static numbers vary wildly.
A dyno is only useful for same day/same bike/same dyno comparisons.

A 14bhp gain with a pipe and PC3 sounds about right.
Gains just adding a pipe with a CAT in the headers is unlikely.
 
Yeah one day it was 95 degrees with 90% humidity and the other day it was 75 and 35% humidity , night and day  in the power world.
How much do most folks charge for dyno time?
 
I really didn't make this up for attention, however I've been in a round about way called a liar..I do have the DYNO readouts for before and after(if that means anything). The knowledge that some responders have or seems to have, should apply for an Engineering position with Kawasaki. My seat of the pants HP readout does show an increase in HP(how much I don't know) My a$$ doesn't seem to be able to Calibrate the actual amount.  Finally I do recommend a two brothers black and a PCV. I love the sound and The Feel Of Additional HP :)
 
I also love my 2Bros Titanium.
I love the way a blip of the throttle turns heads when I'm lane-sharing.
I love the low burble at idle,.. and I love the howl when when I give her the beans.
If it gives me more power, I don't care.  :) :great: :beerchug:
 
1warlock said:
I really didn't make this up for attention, however I've been in a round about way called a liar..I do have the DYNO readouts for before and after(if that means anything). The knowledge that some responders have or seems to have, should apply for an Engineering position with Kawasaki. My seat of the pants HP readout does show an increase in HP(how much I don't know) My a$$ doesn't seem to be able to Calibrate the actual amount.  Finally I do recommend a two brothers black and a PCV. I love the sound and The Feel Of Additional HP :)
Click to expand...

I never called you a liar bro, but I do think that the shop's dyno is out of calibration or something else is going on... I blame the shop, not you. ???

 
No no we did mean for you to take it that way. Your not a liar. 
It is just that I have  seen  dyno charts  that show no real improvements with just a slip on- You made your gains with the PCV is what I think and this pipe you mentioned which I still dont know what that is. Maybe you meant mid pipe.
We had  done some  group dyno days with stock and stock with slip-ons and they both  dyno'd the same- 133 hp.
Also we have had many posters come here tell they got no improvement with just a slip on other than the weight change and the sound.
That is all we are saying.  You did real well. Your engine did respond well.  For others there is no need to do  a remap with just a slip on so they see no gains. This is why we try and do dynos one change at a time to see what really did effect the change.It is best to make the change and dyno the same day. Humidity and air temp have a big effect on HP. Your first number was just too low for some reason.
When we do a full header upgrade that does require a fuel remap.
 
Daytona_Mike said:
When we do a full header upgrade that does require a fuel remap.
Click to expand...

I hate to see this posted, I've had ZX14 cat free headers for over two years,  first with the stock ECU , then the Guhl flash, from my understanding Guhl leans  out the fuel curve  about 10% I asked to have the flys open soon as possible and he knew I had the ZX headers with Two Brothers twin cans, It still seams a little rich to me , but I do live in Naples Fl,  it is HOT and humid here, I went out to play last night , shut off the KTRAC and raced a mustang from a light , I lifted the front tire for what seemed like 50 ft ;)
Like I said , I ran the bike with the stock fuel map which is real rich , you DON'T need anything changed to run cat free headers, BUT it's more fun if you do :beerchug:
What I think happen with the dyno test above was the  operator wanted to show a big gain so you have a lower number than any I've heard but then again we have the temp & humidity factor?
Another point I'd like to add, I used 87 a lot , last night it was pure 87 and it was running real good, high octane slows the burn ... less power.
 

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I have a 2008 C14 and added a TBR carbon slip on.  I didn't want a loud system that beats you up on long days in the saddle.  So far I have been very pleased with the TBR system.  The stock bike is rich enough that there is no need for a Power Commander and a dyno tune.  About a year after adding the TBR, I opted for a Guhl reflash.  Overall a good combination that doesn't have an adverse impact on fuel economy.  In fact my 2008 C14 sips fuel as good as, or better than my buddies with newer C14's in ECO mode.

For those on the forum that don't like the popping on decel after adding a slip on, there is an easy fix.  The fix took less than 10 minutes to perform and eliminates most all of the deceleration popping.

http://www.holeshot.com/Concours_c14/c14decel_inst.html
 
Anybody have air leakage where the Two Brothers muffler connects to midpipe? Does the midpipe really not go into the muffler but just held over the muffler port hole with the flanges?Screenshot_20240406_142752_Photo Editor.jpg
 
I ended up creating a gasket with some RTV in an attempt to seal it. Gonna let it cure a couple days before I fire it up and see how I did.

By the way, note to self: never ever settle for less than the best, even if I have to save up a little longer. The difference between the sound, performance, and smoothness between the Two Bros and the Delkevic is night and day.
 
Ya want the best of sound, performance, and smoothness and ya only went 1/2 way?
RED's ready.
ie; 2x Area P Mufflers.
Smarty a___d grin.. :devilish:
1652731276190.png

1652730743829.png
 
The Muzzy (photo's Bud posted) didn't last long.
Was too loud for me and I drug the mid pipes in the corners.
The Area P's that I have on the bike now are smaller ID and have smaller/better routed mids.
The smaller diameters added torque and the tighter routed mids don't ever drag. (I really tried)!!
NOTE: The left Mid and muffler was originally a right side Area P that I modified to fit on the left.
(Look closely at the photo and you can see the welds on the (left side) mid pipe and the upside-down muffler).

Ride safe, Ted
 
Last edited:
I case ur wondering, Ted has mad skills and likes to tinker.... just don't get him started about the color RED....lol
 
No, I ain't mad!
Just poor and have to do it myself.

Red!! Did you say RED? :oops:

Woo hoo!!!
Best lookin' bike.
Purtiest color.
Fastest color!!
Everyone Should paint their Connie RED!!

Ride safe, Ted
 
connie_rider said:
No, I ain't mad!
Just poor and have to do it myself.

Red!! Did you say RED? :oops:

Woo hoo!!!
Best lookin' bike.
Purtiest color.
Fastest color!!
Everyone Should paint their Connie RED!!

Ride safe, Ted
Click to expand...
The red ones do look nice.

I'm partial to the Sonic Blue, though. I'd originally hoped to find a 2001. My car is a Mazda3 in a very similar color. My wife drives a Mazda5 in red, though. She doesn't keep track of model names, though, so they go by "red pill and blue pill" in our household.
 
connie_rider said:
No, I ain't mad!
Just poor and have to do it myself.

Red!! Did you say RED? :oops:

Woo hoo!!!
Best lookin' bike.
Purtiest color.
Fastest color!!
Everyone Should paint their Connie RED!!

Ride safe, Ted
Click to expand...
Ted, you sound hilarious. Look forward to meeting you some day. And I am gathering you have some amazing skills. I really admire that. Are you only one who has dual-exhausted Connie around here?
 
Last edited:
Not amazing. Just like to tinker and have the equipment available to modify things.
I feel that most can do it if you take the time to do it. (ie; lots of patience and try/try again).

Others have the duals, and have now found a way to buy the parts. (not manufacture them as I
had to)

ie; Early (06-07) OEM ZX-14 headers and mufflers/mids for an early (06-07) ZX-14.
Will try to find you the discussion later.

Ride safe, Ted
 
connie_rider said:
Not amazing. Just like to tinker and have the equipment available to modify things.
I feel that most can do it if you take the time to do it. (ie; lots of patience and try/try again).

Others have the duals, and have now found a way to buy the parts. (not manufacture them as I
had to)

ie; Early (06-07) OEM ZX-14 headers and mufflers/mids for an early (06-07) ZX-14.
Will try to find you the discussion later.

Ride safe, Ted
Click to expand...
That would be sweet! I will look around, too! Maybe down the road I can consider doing that!
 
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