Unh unh Suzuki Bandit ABS is not a substitute for a Connie

[lmckusic]

Starting a couple of months ago, I have been wanting anti-lock brakes for my Connie C10. 

My friend PIerre had a Suzuki Bandit 1250 with ABS in storage with electrical problems. The bike has ABS. Pierre gave me the bike as he had to clean out the storage locker and he was out of motorcycle electrical system repair gumption.

I commute 10 miles over Highway 92, a mountain road that has heavy commuter traffic, trash trucks  and several hairpin turns.

I got the Suzuki Bandit running last week and I started riding it on my daily commute to work. Early on, I noticed that the Suzuki Bandit weighs about 125 pounds less than my Connie. The good side is I can pick it up. The bad side is, That weight in the Connie is the fairing and the shaft drive.

I was rolling the Suzuki out of the garage on Monday morning and I saw two patches of bright blue sky by the Connie. The rear view mirrors on the Connie were talking to me. The twenty year old 80,000 mile Red Connie was being left behind. 

The Suzuki is an interesting change from the Connie. It is a 2008 model with quick starting fuel injection, front wheel lifting power, big saddle bags and ABS. On the downside there is no fairing pockets, I can't tell police cars in the rear view mirrors,  and there is none of the warmth and wind protection of the Connie's fairing.  Another downside with the Suzuki is my pants legs tend to catch on the foot pegs.

On the fourth day of commuting, my neighborhood had an ice cold driving rain. On the Connie it would be wet shoes and a few sprinkles at the stoplights. For the same weather on the Suzuki I estimate I would get 10 wet miles and a lot of 45 miles per hour wind chill. The problem with riding the Suzuki in the rain is wet wind chill pneumonia. Why push it?  I'm over 70.

The reason I want anti lock brakes on a motorcycle is I don't want to get killed in a high side crash. A crash like this is described in the Fall 2019 Concourier page 15 "Some things we may have forgotten - or never knew" by Larry Buck, COG Safety Officer.

A rear brake modification is described  in The Concourier Issue 4 2019 "Better Rear Brakes for a C10" by Ted Adcock and Jim Snyder.

On setting up ABS brakes on a C10, a forum post further down mentions a C14 ABS brake system and wiring harness was fitted to a C10. The modification appears as a mention on a Australian web forum, but the details suggest "it can be done" but the details do not tell much about how to do it.

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-c10-zg1000-general-chat-and-tech/c10-rear-wheel-braking-leads-to-high-side-crash-antilock-kit/

The Suzuki with ABS has been an interesting ride but the Connie has much better weather protection.

My 20 year old red Connie is getting to be a familiar machine. I am going to continue watching for C10 ABS solutions, and also enjoy the Suzuki Bandit and who knows, maybe switch over to some other vehicle solution by and  by.    Best wishes Lee

 

[dc-concours]

The C10 has a lot to offer. And hence the life long love affair for many owners.

I feel ABS are not that useful on motorcycles. Why bother chasing ABS? Just learn to brake well with your regular brakes. Get stiff lines, good pads and rotors and you should be good.

 

[Tim R]

Manz, If you had had ABS save your hide a few times you would know why. Example IA friend of mine who was leading made a sharp right turn without warning. With the front wheel ABS activated I had maximum braking with the ability to still steer. ABS activation on dry pavement is rare. If you pull your front brake hard on a dirt road what happens? The front would likely lock and down you go. With ABS you stop. Maybe not on a dime but a 50 cent piece.

Another time which has more significance to me was I was on a road which I had been on numerous time. At the end was a blind 90 degree corner which goes around an outcropping boulder. So this turn was blind. As I entered the corner I found my self in marble sized gravel which I had not seen there before. I picked out my landing area but the ABS got me through it and I ended up stopping at the stop sign at the end of that corner. I had to stop on the side of the road, abuse some tobacco products, and pull a seat cover out of my underwear.

I am convinced had I been on my beautiful Z1 900 I would have crashed and burned on those marble sized pebbles. I don't know how I managed not to crash on the C14 except the ABS kicked a few times. I have much more time on a non ABS bike but I like it.  ABS probably  would have saved me from a crash in 2013 while riding a Harley.    But to each his own. I am not going to condemn someone over the subject. I like the ABS but you can have your opinion too. 

What I really need is to have a nice warm day with no snow and freezing temperatures. That way I could put some wind in the fins. This would be those fins either on the head and motor or those fins in the radiator.    Tim

 

[nickrides]

Hey LeeM
Good Post
I bought a 2014 C-14 this June because  it had ABS, and its a Connie, I like it, a lot.
Modern ABS is a trip! It works so well, and it just sits there waiting to save your A$$.
Maybe you should start looking for a Late Model C-14 with ABS, I found a beauty with 11k miles, Cheap!
There out there, be patient and one will come to you.
Ride Safe in 2020!

 

[FTB530]

Manz, If you had had ABS save your hide a few times you would know why. Example IA friend of mine who was leading made a sharp right turn without warning. With the front wheel ABS activated I had maximum braking with the ability to still steer. ABS activation on dry pavement is rare. If you pull your front brake hard on a dirt road what happens? The front would likely lock and down you go. With ABS you stop. Maybe not on a dime but a 50 cent piece.

Another time which has more significance to me was I was on a road which I had been on numerous time. At the end was a blind 90 degree corner which goes around an outcropping boulder. So this turn was blind. As I entered the corner I found my self in marble sized gravel which I had not seen there before. I picked out my landing area but the ABS got me through it and I ended up stopping at the stop sign at the end of that corner. I had to stop on the side of the road, abuse some tobacco products, and pull a seat cover out of my underwear.

I am convinced had I been on my beautiful Z1 900 I would have crashed and burned on those marble sized pebbles. I don't know how I managed not to crash on the C14 except the ABS kicked a few times. I have much more time on a non ABS bike but I like it.  ABS probably  would have saved me from a crash in 2013 while riding a Harley.    But to each his own. I am not going to condemn someone over the subject. I like the ABS but you can have your opinion too. 

What I really need is to have a nice warm day with no snow and freezing temperatures. That way I could put some wind in the fins. This would be those fins either on the head and motor or those fins in the radiator.    Tim

Did the abs kick in or the traction control? I slid in some chip seal rock i didnt see but felt the bike wiggle and saw the TC lights flash a few times before i got out of that corner.

 

[nickrides]

ABS story from this past fall
I'm riding Down Valley in Placerville Co, about 12 miles from my house on a 2 laner.
I'm doing about 60-65
On a blind RT hand  corner a car pulls out in front of me from right to left, sees me and stops blocking my lane completely. Right side of road is a big ditch, don't want to go there.
Traffic in opposite lane.
I think I'm going to hit the driver door, hard.
I clamp on the brakes as hard as I could and hang on, the C-14 stops about 48" from the car.
Maybe/ probably  a hot shit rider could do better than I did, I'm 61 and not hot shit.
Got lucky, the ABS worked perfect. didn't go down, just got scared.
Stopped at the next store, got a ice tea and sat in the sun and regrouped.

 

[Tim R]

FTB359 wrote:

Did the abs kick in or the traction control? I slid in some chip seal rock i didnt see but felt the bike wiggle and saw the TC lights flash a few times before i got out of that corner.

It was the ABS. My 09 doesn't have traction control. It wasn't until later model years the (2010?) traction control was added.  No linked brakes either.

I should have explained that a little better about grabbing a front brake and stopping on a gravel road. I can use front or rear brake separately from each other but both have ABS. 

If someone figures out How to install ABS on a C10 I believe others would follow.  Tim

 

[Steve in sunny Fla]

yeah, from here on it's ABS for me too. Steve

 

[Freddy]

I'm with Steve.  It was me who retrofitted ABS to the C10 from a C14    Yes it can be done fairly easily, but no-one has repeated the exercise to my knowledge.  As I mentioned somewhere in that thread on the Australian forum, it works because the front & rear wheel rolling radius ratio on both bikes is very close to the same, despite the different sizes.

I don't know if you need to register with Tapatalk to see the pix (which now have a P/bucket 'watermark' at the bottom of them) but if anyone wants to do it, I'm here.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/gtr1000/brake-upgrade-and-performance-boost-for-das-boot-t4571-s20.html

 

[Mercer]

I'm with Steve.  It was me who retrofitted ABS to the C10 from a C14    Yes it can be done fairly easily, but no-one has repeated the exercise to my knowledge.  As I mentioned somewhere in that thread on the Australian forum, it works because the front & rear wheel rolling radius on both bikes is very close to the same, despite the different sizes.

I don't know if you need to register with Tapatalk to see the pix (which now have a P/bucket 'watermark' at the bottom of them) but if anyone wants to do it, I'm here.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/gtr1000/brake-upgrade-and-performance-boost-for-das-boot-t4571-s20.html

Freddy great work! appreciate the link. I may have missed it in the speed read........
but did you get the LED working the way you were seeking on start up and fault? 

For the frugal DIYrs among us, myself included, what do you think this would cost to convert a C10 with C14 ABS parts. I saw where you had put a chunk down initially. How did the final tally pan out?

Thanks again for posting on this. Well done!

 

[Freddy]

I don't remember the final cost but less than $A500 I'm sure.  I got all parts from ebay.  The ABS unit came with all pipes & hoses making it easier but I used new braided lines where needed.  You can use parts from the series 1 ZG1400 (non-Traction Control) and/or from the series 1 ZX14ABS (non-TC).  As it happened, I got the unit and complete harness from a series 1 European ZZR1400ABS. 

Note that all parts from the series 2 ZG1400 (with TC and linked brakes) and the series 2  ZX14ABS (2012 on has TC) are NOT interchangeable with series 1 (non TC) bikes.  The series 1 ZG14 and series 1 ZX14 ABS units (and all other brake parts) are interchangeable, tho they have different part numbers due to the slightly different calibration of the ABS ECU as a result of the slight weight differences of the 2 bikes. 

Series 2 bikes (as I call them) have different wheel sensors & rings.  The rings cannot be used as the hole count is different - series 1 has 60/50 rings while the series 2 has 48/45 rings.  All that's covered in the link above.  Series 1 sensors mount with 2 small bolts whereas series 2 sensors mount with 1 bolt (they may work but I haven't tried).

Regarding the ABS warning light, I got it to function correctly using the parts described therein (resistor & diode I think it was), however the warning light is not fully extinguished and can be seen to be glowing somewhat in shade or thick cloud cover and at night obviously.  I don't know enough of electronics to eliminate this minor issue.

Making brackets to attach the sensors was straight forward. The rings are attached to the discs with 1mm tie wire.  Though this isn't ideal, it has proven to be adequate given that the rings do nothing but simply sit there.  I remove the discs when fitting tyres and re-wire the rings at each change.

The earlier ZX14 bikes (in USA & Australia) did not have ABS whereas the European/UK ZZR1400 bikes did.  The wiring harness for ABS bikes has a fairly large orange/red plug.  As I said, only ZX/ZZR bikes prior to 2012 are suitable as they came without TC.  The wheel rings from the particular bike will show whether or not it's pre or post TC, if unsure, as mentioned above.

 

[Mercer]

Freddy,
Thank you again from/for those that might follow you. That was an excellent informative post.

Tip o de hat to you sir! Think I might start collecting parts for a next winters project. Got my hands full with a list for this year.

C10 farkles, the diy gift that keeps giving! I luv keeping the C10 in the game as much as riding it. This sounds like a fun project.

 

[Freddy]

  :s_good:  You're the first to show any interest in 4 years.  Keep us posted.  :beerchug:

 

[dboogie2288]

I had a bandit 1200 for a few months in 2012, A bit older than the one you describe, but it was a rocket.  :-\

I ride a little crazy, but that thing was too fast for me. It was in a streetfighter config, so no fairing, and with the seat being slick and flat, it would most times move me towards the back.

The bandit is definitely not the connie, but different bikes for different purposes, right?