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Viscosity

elektradw

elektradw

Moped
I recently purchased a 2009 C14 with 4600 miles. The first thing I did was switch to synthetic. My dealer wanted to put 5w40 in the bike and I opted instead for 20w50. I am in Las Vegas and the summer temps stay over 100º and I will never be in 32º or below.The specs in the manual do not even list 5w40 as an option so I am curious as to why the Dealer recommended it. the 20w50 seems more appropriate for the desert summer temps. NOw when starting the bike from cold, about 75º, I hear metal on metal for about the first split second then it goes right away. Like the oil was too thick to circulate fast enough. This noise was not there prior to the oil change. I am about to dump the oil for the recommended 10w40 and hope it works with the intense heat of the desert. I do not like to hear the metal on metal at startup. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks in advance.
 
I am not sure I have an answer but I know my newer Honda car uses water thin oil in it at all temperatures.  I think it must come from newer designs and materials just not needing the thick stuff to seal as much as needing the thin stuff to flow fast.

I would use what they recommend at least till the warranty is up, specially if you are hearing a problem.
 
The metal on metal sound is more than likely the cam chain which is normal. I have run 20w50 before. I am in south georgia and temps get 100+.
 
Your dealer recommended 5-40? Did you ask him why? I would be VERY leery of anything that dealer recommends in the future. 5 is way too thin for this bike, especially in the heat where you live.
 
The 5w will only give you better circulation when cold. When the bike is warm it will be a 40w. Their are plenty of people who run rotella 5w40 with no issues. I would not run it personally but I wouldnt look for the motor to explode because of the 5w. I have normally used 10w40 like the manual calls for.
 
Hey guys thanks for the great replies.
I went to another Kawasaki dealer in Las Vegas and he thought 20w50 would be the best choice for temps of 100 plus. However he also said in a synthetic you are ok at 10w40. He thought the noise at startup was the hydraulic lifters prior to filling with oil. I have the same noise in my VW Jetta but a lot worse. It sounds like marbles in the crankcase for about the first 10 seconds on cold startup, but the manual says it's normal and to disregard. In the VW it's the lifters. The VW uses 10w40 all year round.

So, I decided after many agonizing minutes of weighing in all the facts and finally decided that 10w40 full synthetic would be my best choice. It's factory recommended and in full synthetic should take the heat of summer. Not like Im going to be riding much at 100º anyway. And after changing the oil out the noise is gone.
 
That's my thinking also. I use the 10w40. I don't ride when it gets too hot unless I would have to (trip or something). 10w40 meets your/my needs. Although 20w50 probably wouldn't hurt other than in cold weather!
 
My dealer is backed up 2 weeks ... i could not wait to get my first service down 2 weeks from now ... so i bought my oil, filter and final drive oil and i am going to do that part of it myself.  i figure that is the most important part of the service.

anyway ... he recommended the 20W50 ... i declined and bought the 10W40.

New fluids for my Mistress tonight!!
 
I am pretty sure the manual lists both the 10W and 20W as recommendations.  I have the Amsoil 20/50 in my bike now.  Im in Orlando, FL and its 90 or 95 everyday, so far no issues.  I will experiment with the Rotella T6 next change (cause its cheap if i dont like it) but no issues with the 20W. 
 
elektra said:
He thought the noise at startup was the hydraulic lifters prior to filling with oil.
Click to expand...

Hi Elektra & other C14 owners,

I don't own a C14 but I'm pretty sure that it's not equipped with hydraulic lifters, If it was
then you wouldn't need to do valve adjustments and replace shims. If you bring it in for service
you might want to ask what he really meant by that comment.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd love to learn some more about the C14 motor.
 
I would never use a 5w-anything oil in any motorcycle where the engine and transmission share the same oil. It is made from a base stock 5 weight oil, which is simply too thin to protect your transmission.
 
Fred_Harmon_TX said:
I would never use a 5w-anything oil in any motorcycle where the engine and transmission share the same oil. It is made from a base stock 5 weight oil, which is simply too thin to protect your transmission.
Click to expand...

So what do you run in your C14 Fred? (and Wing, for that matter?)  :)
 
Clinton said:
Fred_Harmon_TX said:
I would never use a 5w-anything oil in any motorcycle where the engine and transmission share the same oil. It is made from a base stock 5 weight oil, which is simply too thin to protect your transmission.
Click to expand...

So what do you run in your C14 Fred? (and Wing, for that matter?)  :)
Click to expand...

I'm currently using Mobil One MT4 10w-40 in both bikes. Previously, I used Mobil One 15w-50, and may switch back to it when I run out of the MT4 I bought on sale.
 
Is there something you  liked better about the 15/50 vs. the 10/40? 

Im still trying to decide where to go on the next change.  Maybe Rotella T6 and maybe Mobil 1.  The Mobil 1 seems to be more expensive than the Amsoil from what I have seen. 

Whats your thoughts on the Spectro oil?

Thanks for your input, by the way!
 
Clinton,

I'm a fan of the Spectro oils... I've been using Golden Spectro (synthetic/dyno blend) for over 20 years in several Honda VFRs, and always had good results.  I just did my first service on my new 2010 C14 and put in Golden Spectro 10w-40 per the manual.  Just did it yesterday so I have not ridden it yet, but I expect it will smooth up the shifting a bit and of course provide great engine protection. 

But there are lots of good oil products out there, it comes down to personal preference.

Tim
 
The C14 does not have hydraulic lifters.  Shim and bucket.  The noise you hear is the hydraulic cam chain tensioner adjusting with oil.  Completely normal.
 
I usually buy my Spectro oil at the local Honda/Kawasaki shop when I need it.  Its getting pricey...  last week it was $8.95/quart, used to be about $5 and we thought THAT was expensive.  I could probably do better on line, but not much.  But when it comes to oil and tires, I like to buy the best I can.  The former protects my investment in the bike, the latter protects my investment in me!  :) 
 
Tim Anderson said:
I usually buy my Spectro oil at the local Honda/Kawasaki shop when I need it.  Its getting pricey...  last week it was $8.95/quart, used to be about $5 and we thought THAT was expensive.  I could probably do better on line, but not much.  But when it comes to oil and tires, I like to buy the best I can.  The former protects my investment in the bike, the latter protects my investment in me!  :)
Click to expand...

Absolutely!!  Thanks for the info Tim!
 
Oils do make a difference with this start-up clatter. Kawi told me this noise is normal in the 14's. Some oils are soooo noisy. Some oils are not bad at all. On your next change try something different, the 10-40s seems to work quieter in my 14.
 
Hello,
Are we losing sight of the fact that the Connie 14 is water cooled and will run within a set temperature range dependent on the thermostat regardless of what the ambient air temperature is at the moment?  Also with the tranny sharing oil I think 5w would be very, very bad.  One last thought, the noise at start up is the variable valve timing filling up with oil I believe.
Later,
Norm
 
I'm with Norm... I don't think the w50 is going to do bubkus in a liquid cooled engine.  I've been running 10w40 in my VTX and now my Connie in Texas heat for years.

But I do use Engine Ice for coolant.
 
Hey guys thanks for all the great info. Ended up using Amsoil 10w-40 synthetic. Hydraulic chain tensioner or Variable timing gear, I sure hope that's the noise. It goes away almost instantly so I will just start the bike with my full face helmet on, that way I just wont hear it. Noises like that bother me.

Just returned from 1600 mile road  trip: Las Vegas > Santa Barbara >St Louis Obisbo > Hearst Castle >  Monterey > Holister > Sequoia Natl Park. The bike ran great, what a wonderful touring machine. Lots of 1st and 2nd gear switchbacks going across the Coast Mtns from Bradley to Big Sur (detour as Rt1 was closed midway) Probably the most treacherous road I'v ever been on. Nacimento-Ferguson Rd. (Cal. G18). Google Map it. I kissed the ground when I finally made it to the coast and cursed the BMW guys that recommended it.

After cleaning the bike on return, I figured after 2000 miles I probably need to top off the motor oil. Negative. Didn't burn a drop and the oil was still clear and golden. I had to look twice as I thought the oil check window was empty. Clean oil = no blow by gasses = tight piston seal = more compression = more power. I'm loving this bike.

pics of Hearst Castle and the "road of death" here:

http://gallery.me.com/elektralv#100192&bgcolor=black&view=grid
 
lol.... Nascimiento-Ferguson Road is sick!! Makes the "Dragon's Tail" look like a Go Kart track. Don't ever need to do that again. Woof!
 
I used to work for a major lubricants company and one of the biggest public misconceptions is that you should increase your viscosity to help protect your engine.  This may have been true in past (ie, 70's and earlier).  However, engine tolerances have become so tight that lower oil viscosities are needed for proper penetration into these tight areas of the engine.  This is witnessed by the metal clanking sounds that arose at cold startup.  The oil was too thick to get where it needed to be.  Use the manufacturer's recommended viscosity!  Design/tech specs are there for a purpose.  Do not try to outsmart the designers.
 
In response to GT both 10w40 and 20w50 are both recommended in the owners manual depending on the range of ambient temperatures. Based in Las Vegas, where most days the temperature is over 100 in summer, 20w50 would be indicated. There is, however, some controversy here as you mentioned. I went back to 10w40 to see if the noise would abate, but it didn't.

So today I stopped by a new Kawasaki dealer and talked to the service manager, not the service writer who had no idea and wore a blank stare. The service manager was adamant that the C14 does not like synthetic oil. I was skeptical, but he insisted. Go back to Kawasaki premium oil and use 20w50 for the summer and 10w40 for winter. 

So this will be the 3rd oil change in 5000 miles. Funny thing is the noise started after I switched to synthetic oil. I, at first, thought this a coincidence, but that would agree with the service managers insistence that the C14 engine does not like synthetic oil. Go figure.

Let's see tomorrow when I start it up after sitting all night if he is indeed correct. Any bets on this?
 
To my total amazement the noise is now gone. That's right. Dumped the Amsoil synthetic and switched to Kawasaki premium 20w50 and presto. I was skeptical when advised to do this by my Kawasaki service manager but he obviously knew what he was talking about. This goes against everything I thought I knew about oil. I have always used synthetics in my cars and bikes, even my Harleys. I find that the clutch doesn't grab and the transmission shifts smoother too. Go figure. I still don't know where the noise emanated from and have no idea what the chemistry is that makes the synthetic problematical.
 
My motor was very quiet with Mobil1 4T.

I used Amsoil one time and had nothing but trouble with it right off the bat. I thought I had transmission problems. So with less than 100 miles on the oil, I dumped it. Then switched back to Mobil 1 and the problem went away immediately. I never used Amsoil ever again. And I know a couple of other people with the same exact story using Amsoil. So in your case, maybe it's the Amsoil!  :))
 
elektra said:
Just returned from 1600 mile road  trip: Las Vegas > Santa Barbara >St Louis Obisbo > Hearst Castle >  Monterey > Holister > Sequoia Natl Park. The bike ran great, what a wonderful touring machine. Lots of 1st and 2nd gear switchbacks going across the Coast Mtns from Bradley to Big Sur (detour as Rt1 was closed midway) Probably the most treacherous road I'v ever been on. Nacimento-Ferguson Rd. (Cal. G18). Google Map it. I kissed the ground when I finally made it to the coast and cursed the BMW guys that recommended it.
Click to expand...

Doug,
  I was out there roaming around from 5/10-5/18.  I'll see your Nacimento-Ferguson Rd
and raise you one W. Camino Cielo From 154 to 101/ Refugio Rd.  NEVER AGAIN!

IMG_3357.jpg
9+ miles of
REAL ugly fire road to get here.  Sure wish this sign was at the other end on 154. :-[

IMG_3352.jpg

This second pic is overlooking Lake Cachuma from the KEYT TV transmitter site
above Santa Barbara. 

  Mobil 1 15-50 and I never hear any noise at startup.  12,800'ish miles and no oil usage
between changes.

Mick
 
elektra,

If you stand the bike straight up when starting, the cam chain noise should all but disappear.  If you start it while it's leaned over (like on the side stand), the chain contacts the side of the case and rattles if it's loose enough.

The chain tensioner can ratchet out over time, and change how loose it is at startup.  This can lead to varying amounts of startup rattle over time.  Harmless, but annoying.
 
Thanks C1xrider I think you hit it right on the head. Everything fits. It probably had nothing to do with the oil after all, just the position of the bike at startup: kick vs center stand. Brilliant deduction! However, after a nice ride to breakfast this a.m. I just happened to ride by the Kawasaki dealer. Just to look around and have a burger; they were having a cookout for Mem wknd. Anyway, they made me a deal I just could't refuse. You talk about impulse buying. But I hate engine noises almost as much as I hate snakes. I can feel the anxieties fading fast already. Subconsciously it was the heat on my legs that probably drove me to it. Lots of upgrades, couldn't be happier!
 
elektra said:
How's $12,995 on a new 2011 C14 ABS.
Click to expand...

I guess that depends if it's Black or Silver.  ::)

Either way, that's a good price (unless, as Bob said, it required your old one too!)
 
I'm impulsive but not dumb. Of course it did not include my bike in that price, although I did trade mine in and got 7500 plus a tax refund of 400. And it is black, although they did have a nice silver one too. It was a tough choice. I probably could have sold mine privately for more but I didn't want anyone coming back to me complaining about engine noise on startups or anything else. Also do not like strangers coming to my house, you just never know. I probably should have just bought a new one right from the gitgo. Oh well, it's only money.
 
$7,500 + the tax savings isn't bad. Yes you probably could have got more money selling it out right. But then the tax on the bike also goes up. You probably still would come out ahead if you got a good price for your bike. But I also agree that sometimes it isn't worth dealing with the BS, for a few more bucks. Congrats on the newer yet C14!  8)
 
Of course there was the standard shipping, setup and document fees adding another $1500 to the final price. I'm sure they made money on the deal and will make more selling my 2009.
 
Of course they have to make money on your bike. Otherwise there's no incentive for them to take trade-in's! You have to figure that when you decide to trade.
 
I run Shell Rotella T6 which is 5w-40 and synthetic.

Broke the bike in with Shell 10w-40 dino.

No problems using this oil. Ran the same oil in my 2005 FJR1300 and also use it in my wife's 2009 TMAX Scooter.

I also use Purolator Pur1 oil filters. How's that for pushing the envelope? LOL.  :D
 
XJRGuy

I'm with you. I run Rotella T6 and Purolator filters and have for years on my VFR's and now the C14. I have had great luck with both and the bike could not run better.
 
Here is the Kawasaki official verdict on synthetic oil in a C14. Contrary to the local service manager they take an opposite position. One I always felt comfortable with. Use the best oil you can afford. As far as any startup noise this is the their definition.

Mr. Weiss:

Thank you for taking the time to contact Kawasaki Motors Corp. USA
regarding your Concours.  We would have no concern using a synthetic
(partial or full blend) oil in this engine at all.  Further start up noise
due to the cam chain tensioner is completely normal as like our ZX14 it is
a hydraulic tensioner and oil pressure needs to build upon start up to
increase the applied tension.  Should you have any further questions please
feel free to contact us at (949) 460-5688.

Sincerely,

Mark Giest
Consumer Services
Kawasaki Motors Corp. USA
 
I'm running yamalube 10-50 simi synthetic. If think you've rid in a twisty road try breckinridge rd. From Bakersfield to lake Isabella. It parallels hwy 178.
 
elektra said:
Here is the Kawasaki official verdict on synthetic oil in a C14. Contrary to the local service manager they take an opposite position. One I always felt comfortable with. Use the best oil you can afford. As far as any startup noise this is the their definition.

Mr. Weiss:

Thank you for taking the time to contact Kawasaki Motors Corp. USA
regarding your Concours.  We would have no concern using a synthetic
(partial or full blend) oil in this engine at all.  Further start up noise
due to the cam chain tensioner is completely normal as like our ZX14 it is
a hydraulic tensioner and oil pressure needs to build upon start up to
increase the applied tension.  Should you have any further questions please
feel free to contact us at (949) 460-5688.

Sincerely,

Mark Giest
Consumer Services
Kawasaki Motors Corp. USA
Click to expand...


Is that the same "Mark" from the customer service phone line? If it is, he has always been such a helpful sole!  :mad:
 
I just google earthed that road from Bakersfield to Lake Isabella. Looks pretty freakin good, enough so to try it on my next California ride. Can you describe the road in further detail? Length, width, surface, traffic, scenery. Much appreciated and always looking for another great road.
 
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