CW said:Spark plug socket turned backwards work?
CW said:Spark plug socket turned backwards work?
Thank you for sharing this, and it is used as a spacer, but some of your fears are a bit incorrect,Buzzard said:I'm sure most of you know this, but it is a good time to review. There is a precision cut piece of metal tubing between the wheel bearings. The purpose of this tube is to keep the distance between the inner bearing races constant and correct. Over torquing the axle bolt can literally squash this tube, shortening it, resulting in stressed bearings. Most motorcycles have this set up in both wheels. I have seen a local shop use an air wrench to tighten the front axle of my friends FJR1300. I had to use an air wrench on my axle tool to loosen it. Bad.
They are just trying to sell Snap on tools!rrsperry said:Ok, what's with the 22mm hex required for the front bolt? That sure looks like an answer to a question nobody was asking. So ok, new tool ordered.
mattchewn said:so,
Does this mean we are over complaining about KiPass? :??: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Matt
JTX said:Don't forget guys, you can simply buy a single hex socket at sears for 10-15 bucks and be done with it.
I went to Northern tool and grabbed a full set of 7 sockets instead and got a nice set to keep in the tool box.
Made by Klutch and comes with a magnetic base to keep them tidy in the toolbox.
JTX said:Valid points. But these axles are not at extreme torques.
Tis true. Just replaced my wind screen fasteners for the exact same reason. :'( All my hex key's now have the MOB treatment.MAN OF BLUES said:JTX said:Valid points. But these axles are not at extreme torques.
Correct, and I wasn't directing my advice as to that big hex on the axle, I was directing it to all the other fasteners on the bike, like the ones on the brake calipers, rotors, battry cover, plastic panels, frame stiffeners around the engine, handlebars, etc....
After hearing about how many people have stripped out those hexes in the last 9+ years, I felt it was valid to make people aware of the issue.
They also sell these at Harbor freightJTX said:Don't forget guys, you can simply buy a single hex socket at sears for 10-15 bucks and be done with it.
I went to Northern tool and grabbed a full set of 7 sockets instead and got a nice set to keep in the tool box.
Made by Klutch and comes with a magnetic base to keep them tidy in the toolbox.
Bruiser said:They also sell these at Harbor freightJTX said:Don't forget guys, you can simply buy a single hex socket at sears for 10-15 bucks and be done with it.
I went to Northern tool and grabbed a full set of 7 sockets instead and got a nice set to keep in the tool box.
Made by Klutch and comes with a magnetic base to keep them tidy in the toolbox.
4Bikes said:Considering that 93 foot lbs of torque on the axel bolts is needed to hold everything together under load, I find it amazing that some of the Ducati’s have single swing arm designs. The amount of load that single attachment point receives while cornering must be enormous. That would need to be a beefy swing arm and must weigh a lot.
I will argue this point, from experience. I have not had the wheel bearings out of my C14, but have done many in other bikes, dirt bikes most often. These spacers are most often aluminum, and I have had to replace several due to deformation (shortening) of this spacer. If the one in a C14 is stainless steel, OK, tighten the living crap out of it. The axle is tightened about the inner races of the wheel bearing. The outer races are staid in the wheel by a boss on one side, a circlip or other keeper on the other. The inner race is located by the axle or wheel spacer on one side, the inner spacer on the other. I know from experience that I can ruin the spacer in the rear wheel of my KTM with a half inch drive socket and ratchet. Too much torque on the tightening of the axle is not a good thing. Keeping it within factory specs is safe.MAN OF BLUES said:Thank you for sharing this, and it is used as a spacer, but some of your fears are a bit incorrect,Buzzard said:I'm sure most of you know this, but it is a good time to review. There is a precision cut piece of metal tubing between the wheel bearings. The purpose of this tube is to keep the distance between the inner bearing races constant and correct. Over torquing the axle bolt can literally squash this tube, shortening it, resulting in stressed bearings. Most motorcycles have this set up in both wheels. I have seen a local shop use an air wrench to tighten the front axle of my friends FJR1300. I had to use an air wrench on my axle tool to loosen it. Bad.
Using an air wrench on the axle nut is over kill, for sure, I would never use a tool for install that would prevent me from disassembling the parts on the road, using normally carried hand tools.
As far as "crushing" that tubular spacer, its simply not possible to do from tightening the axle nut, no matter what tools are used, the compressive strength of that tube is about 50x stronger than any force that could be generated by the mechanical force induced by the threafs on both the axle and nut....the threads would strip well prior to crushing the tube...
As for overtightening also, please note that each bore that the bearings are seated in, have an internal lip at their base, preventing over insertion... the bearings outer race will go solid against one during install, and when the second bearing is installed on the far side, it should only be tapped in untill it "bumps" the spacer tube, and you install the circlips that retain the bearings.
I hope this simplifies the assembly a bit, for those not familiar with the design elements.
I find the torque spec on the axles, both front and rear, to be somewhat excessive, but due to liability concerns of the manufacturer, they state them as "designed loading".
I've never had issue loading the axles on any bike using a 1/2" drive wratchet wrench, and a breaker bar on the opposite side, you can generate a lot of torque with those tools, more than enough to work correctly...
I also find that the suggestion of leaving the pinch bolts on the nut side of the forks tight, to hold the nut, so you can loosen the axle bolt, puts excessive wear on the actual threads of both the nut, and the axle, as the nut is now "clamped tight" and compressed slightly... If you only have one wrench, you can leave the pinch bolts.on the head of the axle tight to hold it,nwhile removing the nut on the far end.. I lube the axle threads with anti sieze, and coat the shaft with grease, and tighten the axle and nut prior to clamping the ends tight, and that is only after spinning the wheel and clamping the brakes on a dozen times to centralize the wheel between the forks...
These are lessons gleaned from 45 years of fixing bikes, with issues that were egsacerbated by incorrect procedures.
Buzzard said:I will argue this point, from experience. I have not had the wheel bearings out of my C14, but have done many in other bikes, dirt bikes most often. These spacers are most often aluminum, and I have had to replace several due to deformation (shortening) of this spacer. If the one in a C14 is stainless steel, OK, tighten the living crap out of it. The axle is tightened about the inner races of the wheel bearing. The outer races are staid in the wheel by a boss on one side, a circlip or other keeper on the other. The inner race is located by the axle or wheel spacer on one side, the inner spacer on the other. I know from experience that I can ruin the spacer in the rear wheel of my KTM with a half inch drive socket and ratchet. Too much torque on the tightening of the axle is not a good thing. Keeping it within factory specs is safe.MAN OF BLUES said:Thank you for sharing this, and it is used as a spacer, but some of your fears are a bit incorrect,Buzzard said:I'm sure most of you know this, but it is a good time to review. There is a precision cut piece of metal tubing between the wheel bearings. The purpose of this tube is to keep the distance between the inner bearing races constant and correct. Over torquing the axle bolt can literally squash this tube, shortening it, resulting in stressed bearings. Most motorcycles have this set up in both wheels. I have seen a local shop use an air wrench to tighten the front axle of my friends FJR1300. I had to use an air wrench on my axle tool to loosen it. Bad.
Using an air wrench on the axle nut is over kill, for sure, I would never use a tool for install that would prevent me from disassembling the parts on the road, using normally carried hand tools.
As far as "crushing" that tubular spacer, its simply not possible to do from tightening the axle nut, no matter what tools are used, the compressive strength of that tube is about 50x stronger than any force that could be generated by the mechanical force induced by the threafs on both the axle and nut....the threads would strip well prior to crushing the tube...
As for overtightening also, please note that each bore that the bearings are seated in, have an internal lip at their base, preventing over insertion... the bearings outer race will go solid against one during install, and when the second bearing is installed on the far side, it should only be tapped in untill it "bumps" the spacer tube, and you install the circlips that retain the bearings.
I hope this simplifies the assembly a bit, for those not familiar with the design elements.
I find the torque spec on the axles, both front and rear, to be somewhat excessive, but due to liability concerns of the manufacturer, they state them as "designed loading".
I've never had issue loading the axles on any bike using a 1/2" drive wratchet wrench, and a breaker bar on the opposite side, you can generate a lot of torque with those tools, more than enough to work correctly...
I also find that the suggestion of leaving the pinch bolts on the nut side of the forks tight, to hold the nut, so you can loosen the axle bolt, puts excessive wear on the actual threads of both the nut, and the axle, as the nut is now "clamped tight" and compressed slightly... If you only have one wrench, you can leave the pinch bolts.on the head of the axle tight to hold it,nwhile removing the nut on the far end.. I lube the axle threads with anti sieze, and coat the shaft with grease, and tighten the axle and nut prior to clamping the ends tight, and that is only after spinning the wheel and clamping the brakes on a dozen times to centralize the wheel between the forks...
These are lessons gleaned from 45 years of fixing bikes, with issues that were egsacerbated by incorrect procedures.
Buzzard said:MOB, thanks for the info. Steel is good. I guess that a dirt bike (KTM) has weight issues, so they use aluminum. Just imagine the inner races being forces together, say .080". That's a lot of side loading of the bearings. Not good.
jwh20 said:Buzzard said:MOB, thanks for the info. Steel is good. I guess that a dirt bike (KTM) has weight issues, so they use aluminum. Just imagine the inner races being forces together, say .080". That's a lot of side loading of the bearings. Not good.
It doesn't work that way. See the diagram below that I captured from the FSM and color coded. The GREEN shows the bearings themselves and you can see the inner races. The YELLOW is the sleeve that fits inside the wheel between the bearings. The BLUE is the axle itself and the PURPLE is the axle nut. The RED shows the two spacers.
As you can see, regardless of how tight you make the axle nut, you're not going to put pressure on the bearings, just the STEEL inner races. Since the axle and the axle nut are aluminum, there is absolutely no way you can tighten this assembly enough to crush the bearing inner races. The aluminum will give way long before the steel does.
Bottom line is that the axle tension does NOT side-load the bearings in any way. They are free to turn at all times.
smithr1 said:The part in yellow is Aluminum though. At least mine was.
Over all I agree though. May be better to loosen both the clamps and wrench hold both ends.
MAN OF BLUES said:Buzzard said:I will argue this point, from experience. I have not had the wheel bearings out of my C14, but have done many in other bikes, dirt bikes most often. These spacers are most often aluminum, and I have had to replace several due to deformation (shortening) of this spacer. If the one in a C14 is stainless steel, OK, tighten the living crap out of it. The axle is tightened about the inner races of the wheel bearing. The outer races are staid in the wheel by a boss on one side, a circlip or other keeper on the other. The inner race is located by the axle or wheel spacer on one side, the inner spacer on the other. I know from experience that I can ruin the spacer in the rear wheel of my KTM with a half inch drive socket and ratchet. Too much torque on the tightening of the axle is not a good thing. Keeping it within factory specs is safe.MAN OF BLUES said:Thank you for sharing this, and it is used as a spacer, but some of your fears are a bit incorrect,Buzzard said:I'm sure most of you know this, but it is a good time to review. There is a precision cut piece of metal tubing between the wheel bearings. The purpose of this tube is to keep the distance between the inner bearing races constant and correct. Over torquing the axle bolt can literally squash this tube, shortening it, resulting in stressed bearings. Most motorcycles have this set up in both wheels. I have seen a local shop use an air wrench to tighten the front axle of my friends FJR1300. I had to use an air wrench on my axle tool to loosen it. Bad.
Using an air wrench on the axle nut is over kill, for sure, I would never use a tool for install that would prevent me from disassembling the parts on the road, using normally carried hand tools.
As far as "crushing" that tubular spacer, its simply not possible to do from tightening the axle nut, no matter what tools are used, the compressive strength of that tube is about 50x stronger than any force that could be generated by the mechanical force induced by the threafs on both the axle and nut....the threads would strip well prior to crushing the tube...
As for overtightening also, please note that each bore that the bearings are seated in, have an internal lip at their base, preventing over insertion... the bearings outer race will go solid against one during install, and when the second bearing is installed on the far side, it should only be tapped in untill it "bumps" the spacer tube, and you install the circlips that retain the bearings.
I hope this simplifies the assembly a bit, for those not familiar with the design elements.
I find the torque spec on the axles, both front and rear, to be somewhat excessive, but due to liability concerns of the manufacturer, they state them as "designed loading".
I've never had issue loading the axles on any bike using a 1/2" drive wratchet wrench, and a breaker bar on the opposite side, you can generate a lot of torque with those tools, more than enough to work correctly...
I also find that the suggestion of leaving the pinch bolts on the nut side of the forks tight, to hold the nut, so you can loosen the axle bolt, puts excessive wear on the actual threads of both the nut, and the axle, as the nut is now "clamped tight" and compressed slightly... If you only have one wrench, you can leave the pinch bolts.on the head of the axle tight to hold it,nwhile removing the nut on the far end.. I lube the axle threads with anti sieze, and coat the shaft with grease, and tighten the axle and nut prior to clamping the ends tight, and that is only after spinning the wheel and clamping the brakes on a dozen times to centralize the wheel between the forks...
These are lessons gleaned from 45 years of fixing bikes, with issues that were egsacerbated by incorrect procedures.
Well, when you do get around to removing the spacers on either a C14, or a C10, stick a magnet against them....
Until then, trust me when I say they are steel.... this ain't a KTM....
Ride safe.
Question for you;jwh20 said:MAN OF BLUES said:Buzzard said:I will argue this point, from experience. I have not had the wheel bearings out of my C14, but have done many in other bikes, dirt bikes most often. These spacers are most often aluminum, and I have had to replace several due to deformation (shortening) of this spacer. If the one in a C14 is stainless steel, OK, tighten the living crap out of it. The axle is tightened about the inner races of the wheel bearing. The outer races are staid in the wheel by a boss on one side, a circlip or other keeper on the other. The inner race is located by the axle or wheel spacer on one side, the inner spacer on the other. I know from experience that I can ruin the spacer in the rear wheel of my KTM with a half inch drive socket and ratchet. Too much torque on the tightening of the axle is not a good thing. Keeping it within factory specs is safe.MAN OF BLUES said:Thank you for sharing this, and it is used as a spacer, but some of your fears are a bit incorrect,Buzzard said:I'm sure most of you know this, but it is a good time to review. There is a precision cut piece of metal tubing between the wheel bearings. The purpose of this tube is to keep the distance between the inner bearing races constant and correct. Over torquing the axle bolt can literally squash this tube, shortening it, resulting in stressed bearings. Most motorcycles have this set up in both wheels. I have seen a local shop use an air wrench to tighten the front axle of my friends FJR1300. I had to use an air wrench on my axle tool to loosen it. Bad.
Using an air wrench on the axle nut is over kill, for sure, I would never use a tool for install that would prevent me from disassembling the parts on the road, using normally carried hand tools.
As far as "crushing" that tubular spacer, its simply not possible to do from tightening the axle nut, no matter what tools are used, the compressive strength of that tube is about 50x stronger than any force that could be generated by the mechanical force induced by the threafs on both the axle and nut....the threads would strip well prior to crushing the tube...
As for overtightening also, please note that each bore that the bearings are seated in, have an internal lip at their base, preventing over insertion... the bearings outer race will go solid against one during install, and when the second bearing is installed on the far side, it should only be tapped in untill it "bumps" the spacer tube, and you install the circlips that retain the bearings.
I hope this simplifies the assembly a bit, for those not familiar with the design elements.
I find the torque spec on the axles, both front and rear, to be somewhat excessive, but due to liability concerns of the manufacturer, they state them as "designed loading".
I've never had issue loading the axles on any bike using a 1/2" drive wratchet wrench, and a breaker bar on the opposite side, you can generate a lot of torque with those tools, more than enough to work correctly...
I also find that the suggestion of leaving the pinch bolts on the nut side of the forks tight, to hold the nut, so you can loosen the axle bolt, puts excessive wear on the actual threads of both the nut, and the axle, as the nut is now "clamped tight" and compressed slightly... If you only have one wrench, you can leave the pinch bolts.on the head of the axle tight to hold it,nwhile removing the nut on the far end.. I lube the axle threads with anti sieze, and coat the shaft with grease, and tighten the axle and nut prior to clamping the ends tight, and that is only after spinning the wheel and clamping the brakes on a dozen times to centralize the wheel between the forks...
These are lessons gleaned from 45 years of fixing bikes, with issues that were egsacerbated by incorrect procedures.
Well, when you do get around to removing the spacers on either a C14, or a C10, stick a magnet against them....
Until then, trust me when I say they are steel.... this ain't a KTM....
Ride safe.
Challenge accepted. I believe they are aluminum or some other alloy but they are definitely NOT steel and not magnetic. Here are the two spacers off the front wheel of a 2009 Concours being tested with my handy telescopic magnet. Just so you know I'm not faking it I use it to pickup my ratchet handle:
https://youtu.be/uDObyzXHGho
Question for you;
What steel is not magnetic?
Matt
mattchewn said:The spacers on the outside of the wheel are definitely not aluminum. Aluminum would be destroyed instantly by the smallest amount of grit getting on the lip of the dust seal. They are stainless or some variant of it. I have had to replace them after about 50K on one bike so far.
Matt
mattchewn said:What year they off of?
The ones I replaced previously were off a '09 and did not have any flaking evidence and there was a deep groove worn into each one probably over .040 deep on each one. They were also quite heavy. This was last year when I replaced them.
Matt
JDSCO said:It's called a coupling nut
5/8-11 coupling nut specifically
available in steel or stainless 18-8
5/8-11 internal thread and 7/8 hex x 2" length
7/8=.875
22mm=.866
works great and it's very affordable
Under $3.00 US at Ace Hardware or True Value or your participating hardware store
buy an extra for your friends
I installed mine in a 1/2" drive 22mm socket as shown
JDSCO said:It's called a coupling nut
5/8-11 coupling nut specifically
available in steel or stainless 18-8
5/8-11 internal thread and 7/8 hex x 2" length
7/8=.875
22mm=.866
works great, fits the axle nicely and it's very affordable
Under $3.00 US at Ace Hardware or True Value or your participating hardware store
buy an extra for your friends
I installed mine in a 1/2" drive 22mm socket as shown
strum said:Tried the spark plug socket thing. Non of mine will except an extension from the inside.
smithr1 said:strum said:Tried the spark plug socket thing. Non of mine will except an extension from the inside.
Most have a rubber insert that helps hold the plug into the socket for easy removal but in all mine that just pushed right out. But only 1 of my 3 plug sockets worked. It did work and I used it... Then after the job was done I found that I had ordered the one Murph has months before when I was planning ahead :/