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What's with the cr@ppy ride?

Tom NWGA

Tom NWGA

Member
Member
The winter maintenance is done. Now I ride and it seems as though I'm running across a washboard.  The new tires are balanced, the swingarm is lubed, the valves are adjusted, the carbs are sync'd.  The rear shock has 30 psi and is set (I think) on setting 3 (lost the use of the gauge).  Could it be that the motor mounts all need to be re-tightened? Or is it the steering head bearing?  How do I figure this out?
 
Could the tires perhaps be rubbing against fender or frame?  Does the washboard thing happen every time it moves?
 
Is the front tire rubbing on the fender?  It changes shape slightly as speed increases.  If you don't have much clearance, that might be it.  You might also be rubbing on the plastic thingie on the left side of the lower front fender which holds the speedo cable guide.
 
Thanks. Will check it out as well as the other items I mentioned.  Let you know what I find out.
 
Tom, we need more info. what tires did you take off and put on? what pressures are you running? did you do anything to the fork or shocks? steve
 
Avon venoms, front and rear, wing sizes. May recall that I rid the rear tire of Slime from another post.  Air at Avon recommendations of 38 F, 42 R.  Did observe that front tire had to clear fender mounts on the way in and this was not accomplished at full pressure.  Will spend time over the next day or two reviewing the installations (torque, clearance, etc.).
 
I think all the wing sized tires are wide enough to have clearance issues at the fender bolts when installing the tire, but now when it's running. . I don't know what the bike ride was like before, but IMO bias wing tires are hard and ride lousy conpared to a good quality radial. I went the "mini'wing" route with my connie when I first got it, and then I realised I was ruining the bike and saw the light that many more before me already new. Gold wing tires belong on goldwings, not connies.  ;)  Steve
 
I agree about the tires, however check your cheap things first. Motor mounts, head stem bearings, wheel bearings,swing arm bearings, fasteners etc.
 
Loosen up the front axle a bit (does the c10 have pinch bolts on the axle?) bounce the front end a couple times, hold the front brake and rock back and forth and retighten. Worked on my other bikes.
 
Thanks lots, folks. Now I've got a full Saturday planned!  And I might get a little riding in, besides  :motonoises:
 
Old Man on a Connie said:
Loosen up the front axle a bit (does the c10 have pinch bolts on the axle?) bounce the front end a couple times, hold the front brake and rock back and forth and retighten. Worked on my other bikes.
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I had a similar problem when I first installed a fork brace on my C10. As old Man has suggested. The pinch on the front axle was binding the front wheel bearings. So it felt like the bike was on a washboard. It was more pronounced when not just riding straight up (leaning/turning). Loosening the bolts (both brace and axle) then tightening the fork brace, followed by the axle bolts, solved my problem. Not a guarantee that it's your problem. Only a possibility. But since you had the front tire off for new rubber and balance. The front end binding "might" possibly be whats causing the noise and feel you seem to be experiencing.
 
After re-reading this thread. I think I'm going to move this into the tires/suspension section. If it turns out to be another problem other than tires/suspension. I'll move it back to C10 general chat (no harm, no foul). But in it's current form (at this time). The tire/suspension section seems more appropriate.  ;)
 
Bringing up the fork brace is an excellent observation. I don't know if you have a for brace or not, but if you do the simple fact is that the fork brace MUST be properly shimmed, or it will induce stiction that binds the forks and kills the ride (along with seal life). My bike needed .012" shimming to get the brace installed correctly, but the ride difference is absolutely night and day. HTH, Steve
 
Volcantour said:
The new tires are balanced
Click to expand...

I am guessing they weren't so balanced after all, or maybe a weight came off. I would remove the wheel and set the axle, with the wheel on it, on two supports such that the axle is level, and give the wheel a gentle spin. Note where it stops, and whether it swings back and forth before settling in one position. Repeat this a couple of times and you'll know if it is balanced or not. (this doesn't apply if you are using Dyna Beads)

Or, perhaps there is a defect in the tire, or the bead is not seated all the way around.
 
ALSO (and very important), check for tire runout. I have installed tires that were out of round or that the bead did not set completely and a "washboard" effect is exactly how I would describe the result. BTW, back in the day Avons were the WORST tire for "sack-of-walnuts" out of round moldings.

Dan
 
Volcantour said:
Avon venoms, front and rear, wing sizes. May recall that I rid the rear tire of Slime from another post.  Air at Avon recommendations of 38 F, 42 R.  Did observe that front tire had to clear fender mounts on the way in and this was not accomplished at full pressure.  Will spend time over the next day or two reviewing the installations (torque, clearance, etc.).
Click to expand...

Ok. Simple things first, I loosened the front tire bolts and brace first, jiggled, then re-tightened.  There is a rub from inside the fender. Tire pressure is 36 psi. Again, these are Venoms. How does one eliminate the rub from the fender brace?
 
Volcantour said:
Volcantour said:
Avon venoms, front and rear, wing sizes. May recall that I rid the rear tire of Slime from another post.  Air at Avon recommendations of 38 F, 42 R.  Did observe that front tire had to clear fender mounts on the way in and this was not accomplished at full pressure.  Will spend time over the next day or two reviewing the installations (torque, clearance, etc.).
Click to expand...

Ok. Simple things first, I loosened the front tire bolts and brace first, jiggled, then re-tightened.  There is a rub from inside the fender. Tire pressure is 36 psi. Again, these are Venoms. How does one eliminate the rub from the fender brace?
Click to expand...

Replace the wrong sized tires with the right sized tires!  You can loosen up the fender (two bolts on each side front the inside) and try to gain some room, but if these vemons are 130/70's or worse 120/90's  they are probably too tall for clearance.

The Stock K700F 120/70-18 is 24.61" tall. A Venom 130/70-18 is 25.16" tall a gain of .55" and a Vemon 120/90 is 26.50" tall a gain of 1.89"!

 
Turns out the rub is from the new brake pads instead.  :-[  So, after re-torqueing (?) the front end, I cleaned the front brake assemblies with the dremel, re-assembled the units, and re-installed.  Checked the installation and the rub was gone.  Took her out for a quick spin, and did not observe the annoying vibration.  Yea! Will confirm with a longer trip soon (Oh Darn!).
 
Took a longer ride today.  Up and down vibration is still there at 25-40 mph.  Next step is to re-balance and check for tire round....
 
Up and down vibration at 25-40 mph? um? Definetly coming from front tire? I Don't think it is steering nut tightness  as that is more of a wiggle felt at bars on deacceleration at the speeds you mention (but that does sometimes become more pronounced with new tire(s)).
Does the front and rear suspension move freely and feel smooth (no stiction) at 0 speed?
Otherwise it has to be tire interference or front axle alignment or binding. Did you remove or replace bearings? missing axle spacer(s), speedo housing properly seated?. Stupid question but have to ask, front axle tightened and torqued correctly then pinch bolt tightened?
No rub marks present on tires? How about putting masking tape or something on sidewalls of tire see if there is a rub going on at speed?
 
It appears that mounting tires that are out of round leads to poor handling. Sending tire back for replacement.
 
Wow... you'd think someone would have noticed that before the tire got to you.

Where did you get those Venoms?  Let us know how they handle it.
 
Am pleased to report that Dennis Kirk agreed today to exchange my tire under warranty.  Now comes the wait for the new tire to get back.... >:D
 
Volcantour said:
Am pleased to report that Dennis Kirk agreed today to exchange my tire under warranty.  Now comes the wait for the new tire to get back....
Click to expand...
I'm really glad to hear that!  We all make mistakes; the difference between the good folks and the others is in how you deal with it.  Sounds like Dennis Kirk is treating you right.
8)
 
:'( The saga continues. Got the new tire, tried to mount it today - and the bead broke!!!! I was having trouble, then took it to the local dealer. Their shop would not mount it in that condition. 

Soooo, here's I sit, waitin' on a replacement ordered locally to arrive tomorrow and hopin' that I can get my money back from DK for this defective tire too.

Yes, I'm ready, really ready to  :violent-smiley-007:
 
Geez Tom, that's a crock & a 1/2. Hope ya git it all sorted out quick-like. And hope it's rarity in Venom World.
 
Good news is that I'm really, really tired.










Another front tire ordered which arrived today, was successfully mounted and ridden for roughly 50 miles.  8)  Next is to seek refund on 2nd tire. HTW!!!
 
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