What get's me is the consistency... And I'm impressed with the tire compound!
-Z
-Z
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Who says you need ABS?!?
- Thread starter x01660
- Start date
No one needs ABS until they need it.
Riding in the city, where you run into different pavement surfaces with no warning, courtesy lines that can become slick, oil spots, and so on, ABS can make the difference between a pucker moment and much worse.
Yes, you can stop more quickly without ABS under clean conditions, and if you use good brake application you can improve braking distance even with ABS, but ABS can make a significant difference in an emergency.
It's the main reason I replaced my crashed C10 with a C14 ( Steve S. may still rememberthat conversation) , and the main reason my wife has a Vulcan-S ABS bike.
Edit: sorry for preaching Zach, I should have read your post more closely and looked at the video. All I can say is WOW! I've seen two-wheeled drifts before, but that was more like a one-wheeled drift. How can they???
Riding in the city, where you run into different pavement surfaces with no warning, courtesy lines that can become slick, oil spots, and so on, ABS can make the difference between a pucker moment and much worse.
Yes, you can stop more quickly without ABS under clean conditions, and if you use good brake application you can improve braking distance even with ABS, but ABS can make a significant difference in an emergency.
It's the main reason I replaced my crashed C10 with a C14 ( Steve S. may still rememberthat conversation) , and the main reason my wife has a Vulcan-S ABS bike.
Edit: sorry for preaching Zach, I should have read your post more closely and looked at the video. All I can say is WOW! I've seen two-wheeled drifts before, but that was more like a one-wheeled drift. How can they???
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This is the way. ABS is a great tool to have for the occasional gotcha, but not a replacement for good braking skills. Based on years of observations while instructing many experienced rider training courses, IMHO there are plenty of riders out there with poor braking skills who rely 100% on ABS to save their bacon. If fact, another long time instructor once stated "ABS = absence of breaking skills." I probably wouldn't get a bike going forward that doesn't have ABS, but I practice braking skills all the time, which develops the habit of proper brake usage.... which will be the technique applied in an emergent situation. Without developing the skills as a habit, we will revert to the method of braking we use the most - for some that is grabbing a handful of brake.
I actually have a question about this on a C10; is it more likely to endo on a hard stop? Or is it more likely for the front wheel to tuck?
I've never ridden a bike with ABS before. I learned early on (in my first accident and the one that totalled Persephone) NOT to grab a fistful of front brake in a panic. I've been practicing applying full brakes in an emergency stop on Voyager, and I'm STUNNED at how quickly I can actually get it to stop. That said, ill definitely get an ABS C14 when it's time.
-Z
The definition of Threshold Braking (aka maximum braking) is "full application of both brakes without locking either wheel." FWIW, this applies to ABS and non-ABS braking systems.
IMHO... Getting a C10 to endo is highly unlikely and you nailed the potential braking related issue for C10... overbraking and wheel lockup.
These are MSF's typical recommendations regarding overbraking conditions...
- Locking the rear wheel cause loss of steering control. The risk of releasing a locked rear wheel on a surface with good traction is a high-side. It is recommended to not release rear brake in this situation, using front brake to come to complete stop.
- Locking the front wheel causes loss of control. If noticed early the front brake can be released to recover and reapplied - although lengthening braking distance. If not corrected the front wheel will "tuck" (your wording) and the bike may low-side or high-side, depending on conditions/rider input.
Progressive braking pressure is imperative; a super important skill that everyone should learn.
Do you have any recommendations for braking exercises that can be done in a parking lot? I like to get up to about 40 MPH, then stop as quickly and smoothly as possible, using both brakes. And I'll do this repeatedly, until I start to feel a bit of brake fade.
As a followup, how do the linked brakes on a C14 affect rake in the corners when trailbraking? I have been leaned over, for instance, and caught a tiny bit of sand with my rear tire. Had I had ANY more lean angle, or been on the brakes, I would have lowsided (I felt the bike slide under me while leaned over-sketchy). So my question is, do I have to adjust my approach speed and lean angle to account for the rear brakes being activated? Or is the effect not as pronounced?
-Z
I've heard that the Linked brakes on a C-14 work fine for trail braking.
I've also heard that trail braking is done only with the front brake...
I thunk Whuttttt????.
So, I've had the same question you asked.
ie; how do the linked brakes on a C14 affect rake in the corners when trail braking?
I just found this Trail Braking video.
At the 35 second mark, he sez that Trail Braking can be done with either brake. (First time I've heard that)
ie; Both {or either} brake will compress the front end, and both {or either} will allow the front suspension to extend smoothly if you ease the braking as you roll the throttle.
Bottom line; It now makes sense to me that the C-14 Linked Brakes will work fine for Trail braking.
Watch the video. It's a good/basic one that helped me get the Trail braking idea into my head...
Ride safe, Ted
Let the Flames begin!
I've also heard that trail braking is done only with the front brake...
I thunk Whuttttt????.
So, I've had the same question you asked.
ie; how do the linked brakes on a C14 affect rake in the corners when trail braking?
I just found this Trail Braking video.
At the 35 second mark, he sez that Trail Braking can be done with either brake. (First time I've heard that)
ie; Both {or either} brake will compress the front end, and both {or either} will allow the front suspension to extend smoothly if you ease the braking as you roll the throttle.
Bottom line; It now makes sense to me that the C-14 Linked Brakes will work fine for Trail braking.
Watch the video. It's a good/basic one that helped me get the Trail braking idea into my head...
Ride safe, Ted
Let the Flames begin!
This is fantastic!
I asked my question because, as I've mentioned before, I'm ALWAYS trailbraking. Almost every corner. Low speed, high speed... I come into a corner and take a late apex, braking until I can see through the corner, then accelerating out. And I never use the rear to do that, as I'm a lot more precise with the front brake than the rear. So the idea of being leaned over, trailbraking into a corner, expecting only front brakes, while having the rear also brake, seems a bit unsettling to me.
However, I think the combo of the ABS and the linked brakes, along with practice and getting used to the bike, would make it just fine.
Guess the only way to find out is to get a C14 and send it! ( I still haven't ridden a C14.....)
-Z
I believe it would be next to impossible to Endo a C10 from braking alone. Locking the front is possible but would still take some effort with OEM brakes, unlike some pre ABS sport bike brake systems that can do either with just a couple fingers.
Many owners of the pre-2015 bikes with linked brakes found it to be far to unsettling when applying the rear in a corner, as the linked (overactive) front made the bike straighten up. Kawasaki 'recalibrated' the ABS - T/C system from 2015 models to prevent this happening.Guess the only way to find out is to get a C14 and send it! ( I still haven't ridden a C14.....)
-Z
Some owners eliminated the link to solve the problem on those earlier ones.
Wait, so there's a bypass to eliminate the linked braking? That would be optimal....
I don't have a C14 (yet), so I haven't looked too much into it. Maybe I need to spend a bit more time perusing the C14 section....
-Z
There is a much, Much, "MUCH" "easier" way to do it....
Just teach yourself to not use the rear brake.
Applying the front only, applies both (at the perfect amount) and there is no unsettling feeling.
ie; Using only the front applies both at the same instant / at the perfect proportions.
NOTE: On the earlier Linked brake systems, the unsettling feel was because of a sudden increase in braking if you added the rear {or front brake} while using the other.
It was more noticeable in a turn because the "suddenness" could stand the bike up if you weren't ready for it.
Baaaaddddddd!!
Ride safe, Ted
Just teach yourself to not use the rear brake.
Applying the front only, applies both (at the perfect amount) and there is no unsettling feeling.
ie; Using only the front applies both at the same instant / at the perfect proportions.
NOTE: On the earlier Linked brake systems, the unsettling feel was because of a sudden increase in braking if you added the rear {or front brake} while using the other.
It was more noticeable in a turn because the "suddenness" could stand the bike up if you weren't ready for it.
Baaaaddddddd!!
Ride safe, Ted
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I think ABS is the best thing since birth control.
When your 10 hrs into a long ride and worn out and something pops up in front of you that you don't like i.e.
Wildlife, debris, 4x4 post, mattress, lazyboy, down tree, etc. etc. you can FULLY clamp on both brakes full tilt and that part of the equation is over.
Fully clamp em on and keep them fully clamped, the wheels won't lock.
Your NOT going to lock the wheels and go down is the joy here.
Then you can concentrate on turning, while fully braking, to dodge whats causing this alarm.
I've done the lock the wheels thing and gone down at about 50 MPH, that sucked, bad.
That resulted in a 120K total hospital invoice, ouch.
People say when their ready and cocked they can outperform ABS, and I believe it.
It's the startle factor that gets ya.
Nick
2014 C-14
When your 10 hrs into a long ride and worn out and something pops up in front of you that you don't like i.e.
Wildlife, debris, 4x4 post, mattress, lazyboy, down tree, etc. etc. you can FULLY clamp on both brakes full tilt and that part of the equation is over.
Fully clamp em on and keep them fully clamped, the wheels won't lock.
Your NOT going to lock the wheels and go down is the joy here.
Then you can concentrate on turning, while fully braking, to dodge whats causing this alarm.
I've done the lock the wheels thing and gone down at about 50 MPH, that sucked, bad.
That resulted in a 120K total hospital invoice, ouch.
People say when their ready and cocked they can outperform ABS, and I believe it.
It's the startle factor that gets ya.
Nick
2014 C-14
TBH . 9 years now and I am just now able to go back and dissect what happened.
ABS would have helped.
I practice every ride....always have. EMergency stops 2 or 3 times a ride. Bird flies across my path on am empty Indiana road ....Emergency Stop. Nut falls from a tree on an empty road Emergency Stop. When the time came and this moron pulled out in front of me ....Emergency stop. Just at 3 feet of skid mark before I hit him. Tried like hell not to lock the brakes. Almost made it but when it was inevitable the last 3 feet I left a skid mark. Police reports verify somewhere in the reconstruction I remember reading.
I like ABS on the 3 bikes I have it on. 2 Connies and a BMWRT 1100. I like the linked brakes since my reconstructed artificialankle gives me dog shit response on the foot brake.
Like the full face helmet, Alpinestars jacket, Olympia pants I wore.... it's too late for gear, good tires, brake pads and A B S....you don';t need it till you need is ....
PSA....practice practice practice. Find inventive ways each ride to do stops, direction changes and such.....
ABS would have helped.
I practice every ride....always have. EMergency stops 2 or 3 times a ride. Bird flies across my path on am empty Indiana road ....Emergency Stop. Nut falls from a tree on an empty road Emergency Stop. When the time came and this moron pulled out in front of me ....Emergency stop. Just at 3 feet of skid mark before I hit him. Tried like hell not to lock the brakes. Almost made it but when it was inevitable the last 3 feet I left a skid mark. Police reports verify somewhere in the reconstruction I remember reading.
I like ABS on the 3 bikes I have it on. 2 Connies and a BMWRT 1100. I like the linked brakes since my reconstructed artificialankle gives me dog shit response on the foot brake.
Like the full face helmet, Alpinestars jacket, Olympia pants I wore.... it's too late for gear, good tires, brake pads and A B S....you don';t need it till you need is ....
PSA....practice practice practice. Find inventive ways each ride to do stops, direction changes and such.....
So.... for everyone who responded....
Did y'all look at the Reddit link I posted? I was referencing the dude's AMAZING ability at braking. On the track....
I know ABS is important on the street......
This post was a little tounge in cheek, but yeah...
Watch the video in the Reddit link....
Here it is again: https://packaged-media.redd.it/w9e8...=cca8c0132ae48960f849cd542388b7ad10c1d380#t=0
-Z
Did y'all look at the Reddit link I posted? I was referencing the dude's AMAZING ability at braking. On the track....
I know ABS is important on the street......
This post was a little tounge in cheek, but yeah...
Watch the video in the Reddit link....
Here it is again: https://packaged-media.redd.it/w9e8...=cca8c0132ae48960f849cd542388b7ad10c1d380#t=0
-Z
That's CRAZY.... especially given the FRAMES of the bikes of the time....
Some people have ALL the skill....
-Z