ZZR1200 / ZRX100 alternator

[slybonesjesse]

First thanks to 2linby for the emails long time ago with proper part numbers. Well I thought I had a line on a ZZR1200 alternator. I even specificallty asked then the PN for it in an email thread. Today the UPS man shows and its not the right part. They send 21001-1150 which best I can tell is a ZRX1100 alternator. Does antyone know the output and if this fits or not. Might try it if it works and has 600watt output. Checking Ron Ayers microfiche shows its not a Connie alternator 21001-1104 and not the ZZR 21001-1192. Its 21001-1150. Cant find the rating, etc in the short search I did. Time to get back to work. 2003 Concours, 56K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://home.comcast.net/~slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[slybonesjesse]

Looks like the ZRX alternator is 28.6 amps like the Connie. Already heard back and they are working to see why the warehouse sent the wrong one and if the right one is still there, which he says the 'puter shows. 2003 Concours, 56K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://home.comcast.net/~slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[2linby]

As you already found out the ZZR and the ZRX alternators are not the same animal. Hopefully they will be able to get you the right part. Mo Powa!! AKA "2linby" That's 2-lin-by folks! Northwest Area Director COG #5539 AMA #927779 IBA #15034 TEAM OREGON MC Instructor 133K and counting! http://community.webshots.com/user/2linby http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BunBurner Gold Trip) http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip)

 

[jaxrider]

Sly, it's easier to just buy the ZZR1200. You get 17" wheels as part of the deal. Ok, not being helpful but I couldn't resist. Good luck with the project. The 1200 alternator is 610watts IIRC. David in Jax COG# 7898 NE FL AAD & COG Vendor www.dreamjobresumes.com preparing resumes for COG members and friends I ride a KAWASAKI ZZR1200 - Euro http://www.motorbikestoday.com/reviews/Articles/ZZR1200.htm US http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/roadtests/2002_kawasaki_zzr1200/index.html

 

[suzukijay]

From what I've found the part number 21001-1150 fits the following models: ZR1100-C3 (ZRX1100) (1999) ZR1100-C4 (ZRX1100) (2000) ZR1200-A1 (ZRX1200R) (2001) ZR1200-A2 (ZRX1200R) (2002) ZR1200-A3 (ZRX1200R) (2003) ZR1200-A4 (ZRX1200R) (2004) ZR1200-A5 (ZRX1200R) (2005)

 

[suzukijay]

21001-1192 fits the following models: ZX1200-C1 (ZZR1200) (2002) ZX1200-C2 (ZZR1200) (2003) ZX1200-C3 (ZZR1200) (2004) ZX1200-C4 (ZZR1200) (2005)

 

[slybonesjesse]

Just an FYI, the place I ordered this found me the right one and shipped it last Thurs. Should be here this week. I still have the wrong one. They issues a UPS call tag. UPS should be here to get it as well. So no extra cost and the right one is supposed to be on the way. 2003 Concours, 56K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://home.comcast.net/~slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[slybonesjesse]

Well I got the ZZR1200 alternator today. And its the right part number. But I dont have the wiring harness with it. After some internet searching I find I am in the same boat as 4501 Safari on the other forum. And at $50 bucks I am not rushing to order one either. So the quesion is where can I see a ZZR1200 wiring diagram on line? Here are my assumptions studying our Connie wiring diagram and everyone elses ZZR1200 Alt installs. 1. The Connie as 2 wires to the alt. A white wire, and a brown wire. The Brown wire come from ignition and goes to j-box to engage the master relay, and to the provide ignition signal TO the alt. The white wire is the output and goes to the Battery / Starter Relay via the 30A main fuse in the j-box. 2. By wiring the output of the ZZR alt through our own 50A fuse and to the Battery / Starter relay we bypass all that current flowing through the J-box. All my accessories that are run throught the aftermarket fuse panel all connect to the battery. But the power was not coming directly from the alt before. It came there via the j-box and the 30A main fuse. -- Now it does come direct from the alt via out 50A fuse and removes all that load from the j-box. All the existing j-box items that need power from the alt / batt still get it via the 30A main fuse, just kinda the reverse direction. 3. Most people use the brown wire, which I believe to be ignition signal to the alt, to drive a 50A relay which engages / disengages the alt from the system. 4. So where does new ZZR1200 alt get its ignition signal ?? -- MY GUESS is that this is what people do when they follow the part of the instructions where people say to wire the 2 wires coming from the ZZR harness together. What people really do here is tie the ignition signal to the output. This whole thing is turned on and off via the 50A relay. Those who have claimed to have done this and not used the relay and only a 50A fuse, are providing ignition signal to the alt all the time via the direct connection to the battery. Hope that makes sense. 5. When I look at this ZZR1200 alternator there a large studd sticking off the side where the 3 wire connector comes in. My guess based on the my truck/car the large studd is probably the 50A output. And the 3 wires are the ignition signal in. This needs verified via a actual ZZR1200 diagram. Not one of our Connie how to install a ZZR diagrams. I have seen many of those. They dont explain exactly where those 3 wires go. 6. On the other hand, them instructions always say tie the 2 wires together. It does not mention 4 wires ( 3 from connector, 1 from studd ). So does this mean that the wiring harness just ties the 3 together internally at/before the opposite end where the connector is? Seems like it must, in that all the ZZR alt install instructions people post just talk about tieing the wires together. So.... Here are the two plans I have been thinking. But first I wanted more research into the 3 wire plug on the ZZR alt. Plan A A. Wire my own 10 gauge wire from the ZZR output studd to the Starter Relay / Battery through a 50A fuse. B. Run my own brown wire from the Connie connector down to the 3 wire spot on the ZZR alt. Wire in using 3 separate female connectors, and some shrink tubing to make it all look nice. -- Use a true ignition signal. No 50A relay. Plan B. A.3 separate female connectors and a little shrink tube to a ring terminal and only run the few inches to the studd. This is the same as tying the wires together. B Run 10 gauge wire from the studd to the 50A fuse and 50A relay like the other instructions say. Use the brown wire to trigger they relay. 2003 Concours, 56K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://home.comcast.net/~slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[slybonesjesse]

One last comment is that I have one of them rubber covers that go over the banjo bolt onthe front brake master cylinder. Left over from when I changed from the 3 line rubber to 2 line SS. The plan was to use this somehow as a cover for the wires coming from the studd 2003 Concours, 56K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://home.comcast.net/~slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[jaxrider]

Sly, Send me an email at davidsturgis@yahoo.com and I'll work on getting you a soft copy of the ZZR wiring diagram and the electrical chapter of the manual if it's not too big. David David in Jax COG# 7898 NE FL AAD & COG Vendor www.dreamjobresumes.com preparing resumes for COG members and friends I ride a KAWASAKI ZZR1200 - Euro http://www.motorbikestoday.com/reviews/Articles/ZZR1200.htm US http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/roadtests/2002_kawasaki_zzr1200/index.html

 

[slybonesjesse]

Thanks David. So reading the ZZR1200 wiring diagram provided by our friend David, it has the same wiring config that the connie was. Brown and White wires coming from the wiring harness / j-box. I assume a little higher current capacity though. Bigger main fuse. The brown wire from the harness goes to the Brown wire on the ZZR1200 alternator wiring harness. And the White wire goes to the Black wire in the ZZR1200 alternator wiring harness. From the install pics I have seen the Black wire is the larger one and runs to the output studd. Cant really tell the color for the smaller wire but assuming its brown, it most likely runs to the 3 pin plug. So the only question is does that ZZR alt wiring harness ( 26011-1846) do anything interesting in there. Why 3 wires out of the alt, spliced into one before going into the main wiring harness connector. Do they have some diodes or something in there ? None shown in the diagram. And they do show diodes in other places. 2003 Concours, 56K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://home.comcast.net/~slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[slybonesjesse]

Looking at the Connie and ZZR wiring diagrams a little more, it appears my PlanA and PlanB are one in the same. In that the brown wire is Connected to the white wire ( the battery / starter relay ) when the ignition switch is on via the ignition switch. That is where they are switched together. So in essense one way you tie the output direct to the battery and tie the trigger to the battery via the ignition switch. The other way you tie both the output and the trigger to the battery via a relay, which is activated by the ignition switch. -- Pretty much the same thing. So I am back to figuring our if the ZZR harness has anything special in there, OR why the 3 pin connector / wires into one wire if there is nothing special. Otherwise I will just go planB, of run a tiny wiring harness the few inches from the output studd to the 3 pin connector. A 10 ga wire to the Starter relay via a 50A fuse and a 50A replay, activated by the brown wire. Pretty much like everyone else shows. Use my banjo bolt cover for the studd protector. 2003 Concours, 56K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://home.comcast.net/~slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[slybonesjesse]

Need a favor from someone who has a ZZR alt with the stock wiring harness that comes with it. I didnt get one and want to just make a harness and I have many supplies. Looks simple enough. From David Sturgis I have the electrical diagrams and sections of the ZZR1200 manual. Thanks!! and I have the Connie one. The question at hand. The manual for the ZZR alt shows like the Connie a single brown wire from the harness to the alternator. But at the alternator there is a 3 pin plug. I see in the pics people post if the ZZR Alt installation with the wiring sheath stripped off, a bit of heatshrink type material where the 3 wire splice into one. The favor is to take a volt meter in the diode measuring setting and very these are just straight 3-1 connection with nothing funky in there. No guessing. Most people I talk to dont believe there is anything funky. And I doubt it myself. But I am not ready to fry my $250 alt because were just guessing. I would like positive conformation there is or is not anything in there but 3-1 wire splice. Thanks -Fred. 2003 Concours, 57K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://home.comcast.net/~slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[slybonesjesse]

Removed. 2003 Concours, 57K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://home.comcast.net/~slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[slybonesjesse]

Don't call the stealer and ask them. Clueless. 2003 Concours, 57K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://home.comcast.net/~slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[slybonesjesse]

Given the recent Optimum RPM thread, where I/we were discussing the output of the alternator, decided tonight to conduct this experiment in the driveway manually working the throttle. I have been wanting to do this anyways so this was a good enough evening Base: 55w low beam, 16w running lights, 16w tail lamps, 8w license plate, 5w instruments, 21 ignition/misc = 133 watts basic to run the Connie. According to most the charts out there. In my case +8w for LED DRL's == 141 watts base min consumption. Additional: 10w high beam, 3.4 neutral lamp, 46w flashers ( 4 * 23w @ 50% duty cycle ), 54w brake lamps, 27.6w Givi brake lamps ( according to Givi instructions ) = 141 watts additional So now I am at 282 watts. Lets turn on 110w Hella FF50's, 36w grip heaters on high, 54 rider Gerbing vest, 27w rider Gerbing gloves, and 54w pass Gerbing Vest for another 281 watts. So now I am at 563 less 32w = 541 watts (assumes the running lights go out when the brakes come on so we cannot add both) watts total and the ZZR Alternator looks like its keeping up ok by around 3000 rpms. Problem was at this point the fan was kicking on for another 48w. At 611 watts total the voltage was dropping a bit. The ZZR alt was not keeping up with 611 watts at 3000. Did not try and rev it to 6K in neutral in my driveway. Sorry. I am going to back this all up and see if I can get down the road with it all on. Should be a little warm wearing both them vests. 2003 Concours, 57K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://home.comcast.net/~slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[slybonesjesse]

Well I didnt melt. Go figure. I-5 test 'n tune results are as follows. Lets start with the 141 base. Add the 281 for the FF50, vests, gloves, grips for 422 and 10 for the high beams. At 432 watts it would hold 14.0 volts pretty easily. 2K and above. Then add the flashers at 46 watts. Thats figuring 4 * 23 but 50% duty cycle. Although it probably does not work that way. When they come on its 96 watts draw. When off I dont think it recovers fast enough. Any thoughts ?? In any case 3500-4000 rpm to hold 14.0 volts with all this on. Thats alternating between 432 and 524 watts. Then add the brake lights. 54watts stock bulbs and 27.6 watts for the Givi lights and 12.9 volts is all she will do. At 4K I drug my foot on the rear brake enough to activate the brake lights and she dropped to 12.9. Then as I down shift and rev to 6k ( in 3rd ) its does not recover and only holds 12.9. -- Didnt try running to 6K and then doing the brakes and see if hold 14.0 didnt think of that till now. 2003 Concours, 57K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://home.comcast.net/~slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[jaxrider]

Sly, That's pretty impressive research! David in Jax COG# 7898 NE FL AAD & COG Vendor www.dreamjobresumes.com preparing resumes for COG members and friends I ride a KAWASAKI ZZR1200 - Euro http://www.motorbikestoday.com/reviews/Articles/ZZR1200.htm US http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/roadtests/2002_kawasaki_zzr1200/index.html

 

[zorlac]

its does not recover and only holds 12.9 I personally would treat 13.2V as the lowest continuous limit. Loading it down to 12.9V is pushing the hell outa that alt. JMHO

 

[jaxrider]

If the ZZR alternator won't drive the full load, what are the options? I heard this was the highest output alternator in that form factor so... it's either reduce the load or buy a Gold Wing? David in Jax COG# 7898 www.dreamjobresumes.com preparing resumes for COG members and friends I ride a KAWASAKI ZZR1200 - Euro http://www.motorbikestoday.com /reviews/Articles/ZZR1200.htm US http://www.motorcyclistonline. com/roadtests/2002_kawasaki_zz r1200/index.html

 

[slybonesjesse]

Zorlac, I tend to agree. I was not suggesting that 12.9 was sustainable as much as I was just reporting my results at attemtping to see where I can push the limits of the ZZR alternator. So far it looks like 525 is not a big problem as long as you have some rpms. And 605 is too much. David that 12.9 is is at roughly 513 watts when the flashers are in the off part of the cycle and 605 watts when all 4 bulbs flash. Thats using 432 watts constant load with all the crap turned on. Adding 54w for the brakes and 27w for the givi lights. And 92 watts with the 4 turn signals flash all at once. 432+54+27=513 in the off cycle and 432+92+54+27=605 in the on cycle. Thats 560 watts as an average. Although I am not sure if it works that way just because peak load is over 600 watts and that drops it down. When they go off for that short time its not enough to recover. I think its too much load. For what ever reason that was the order in which I applied the loads. So while I dont think its quite the claimed 600 watts ZZR alternator holding 14.0 volts, its quite a bit better than the stock Connie alt. Also recall thats throwing a somewhat unrealistic load at it. Who rides with the flashers on all the time. I should be able to run the FF50, 2 vests, gloves, grip heaters, and plenty of electronics and hold 14.0 at pretty much anything over 2k. Probably even hold the brakes on too. I guess thats another test I can try for next time, is run all the stuff again and get back to the 432 base load. Then apply the brakes for that 513 load and no flashers. To see where that holds. My guess I will need a few more rpms, but should hold 14.0 at over 500 watts at over 3k rpms. When generally I keep it above that anyways. I typically down shift under 3k as normal habit. -- I do see coming to a stop with all that on being a problem though. Assuming we use 13.2 as our lowest sustainable voltage, we should be able to get up a bit more. I will have to see what I can come up with for a constant 50 watt load and not use the flashers. Put this at a constant 550 watt range and see how she does. Next time. 2003 Concours, 57K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://home.comcast.net/~slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[slybonesjesse]

I tried this again with the brakes / turn signals applied in the reverse order from last time. Test is at a bit over 3000 rpms at 60mph on the freeway in 6th with a 7th gear unit. Base is 141 watts plus 281 accessories plus 10 watt high beam for 432 watts total. See above post for details. Again it holds 14.0 with no problems what so ever. Drag rear brakes enough for the lights to come on. 28w*2 plus 27 watts for the Givi integrated lights for 515 total watts. -- Stays at 14.0 initially, then drops to 13.8 after about 30 seconds. Release. Next is 432 base + brakes + turn signals ( not flashers like before ). This gives 515w and 561w as the lights flash on and off. Drops to 13.4 as I ride dragging the rear brake and TS on, after about 30 sec max. Last was confirm previous result. Drag brakes for 515 plus flashers at 92w additional when flashing in the on part of the cycle. This brought it down to 12.8 today versus 12.9 last time. So I figure is the same. Overall I think 550 watt range for usable sustained load is not out of the question for a ZZR1200 alternator at normal freeway RPMS. Versus 6K they are rated at peak. The real issue would be they are not that much better at idle than the stock Connie alternator. Sitting at a stop light with the brakes on, turn signals, heated best and gloves on medium, etc. just does not cut it. I think all in all I might try LED bulbs and see how the new technology ones are working. They are getting better and better all the time. I have seen the ones for the Givi but they are pricy. I am thining the 1156/1157 brake/running lights and front/rear turn signal bulbs. Get an electronic flasher for proper flash rate, and a relay to fix the cruise control disengagement. -- This will be a lot less than a ZZR alternaor and reduce the load at idle as well as peak. The down side is it will not cover lots of accessories and aux lighting. For that the ZZR alt solution will work. 2003 Concours, 58K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://home.comcast.net/~slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm