• Forum Subscribers and COG Members, please be aware of policy changes put into effect due to action of the COG board of directors based on input from members. The new membership system makes it possible to implement these changes.

    Forum Subscribers – Forum Subscribers get a six-month limited feature trial forum membership. Forum Subscribers Read the Details Here.

    Members – Your full forum access is only in effect while your membership status is active. Members Read the Details Here

  • FORUM NAME - If you are a COG Member and your user name does not match your name in the old forum or you just want a new one, you can now change it on your own. Read the Details Here

  • *READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * READ ME* READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * If you are a current COG Member or Forum Subscriber and this is your first visit to our new site and forum, please go to www.concour.org and follow the instructions at the top of the page to activate your account and gain access to your site and forum.
  • READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * READ ME* READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * READ ME * Can't post after logging to the forum for the first time... Try Again - If you can't post in the forum, sign out of both the membership site and the forum and log in again. Make sure your COG membership is active and your browser allow cookies. If you still can't post, contact the COG IT guy at IT@Concours.org.
  • IF YOU GET 404 ERROR: This may be due to using a link in a post from prior to the web migration. Content was brought over from the old forum as is, but the links may be in error. If the link contains "cog-online.org" it is an old link and will not work.

Dead Bike Mystery - Help!

WingMan71

Member
Member
Bike is dead. Could use some new brains helping me troubleshoot it.

Here's the situation:

1. 1999 C10 with just 16K miles on it. Bike is in like new condition including all of the wiring, junction box, battery, etc. Never given me an issue before.

2. Rode the bike for 20 miles or so 5 days ago and parked it in it's usual spot in the garage.

3. Today installed Murph's Knee Savers on the bike. Just removed the original foot pegs and installed the Knee Saver foot pegs.

4. Needed to adjust the height of the rear brake pedal, which involved removing the rear brake slave cylinder from the bike to change the position of the small saddle bracket that attaches the slave cylinder to the brake pedal at the pedal pivot point. (Screwed the bracket up the threaded shaft farther to make it shorter, and reassembled.)

5. Repositioned the rear brake switch so that it wouldn't be on all the time because of the brake pedal height change. Did NOT do any other electrical work on the bike at all.

6. Turned the ignition to the ON position.

Symptoms:

1. With ignition key in ON position:

NO headlight, NO dash lights, NO horn, starter does not crank when pressing the start button. The turn signals work, but NOTHING else.

What I've checked:

Battery reads 12 Volts at the terminals. I pulled all fuses in the junction box. Fuses all look good. Swapped out the main 30A fuse with the spare anyway
just for the heck of it. Bike is still dead.

HELP! What should I be checking that I'm not thinking of?
 
Last edited:

connie_rider

Member
Member
You said that the battery checks at 12 volts "at the terminals", which means that you didn't check the cables and grounds.
Check from the positive post of the battery to the frame.
But, I suspect the side stand switch.
 

WingMan71

Member
Member
You said that the battery checks at 12 volts "at the terminals", which means that you didn't check the cables and grounds.
Check from the positive post of the battery to the frame.
But, I suspect the side stand switch.
Would a bad sidestand switch completely disable the starter circuit so that the starter solenoid won't even click? I've got nothing... no click, no crank, just silence.

Would a bad side stand switch also disable the lighting circuit? I've got no lights. Very strange!

Thanks for your help.
 

WingMan71

Member
Member
junction box relay, main.
My guess. (if it isnt a loose wire somewhere).
So, I'm looking at my FSM and it shows that the main relay is inside the junction box.

The only thing I see in the junction box is the fuses. Is there a way to access and replace the main relay inside the junction box, or am I looking at buying a new junction box if that's the problem?

Thanks.
 

Ranger Jim

Member
Member
Do the simple, easy things first:
Check the engine cut-off switch.
Disconnect, clean and reattach the wires on the battery.
Disconnect, clean and reattach the ground wire to the frame.
Check the main fuse.
Check and clean the side-stand switch.
 

Bud

Member
Member
junction box relay, main.
My guess. (if it isnt a loose wire somewhere).
With the key on, tap on the junction box and see what happens. Just because you've never had trouble with the J box, doesn't mean it's not the problem. Larry Buck rebuilds J boxes. Mark in SC has a thread that shows a different way to go that puts easy to find automotive relays on the outside so that you can just go to autozone or other parts store and buy a relay to replace.

J box mod
 

m in sc

Member
Member
in all fairness, I got the idea from another member on here. I'd recommend (if found faulty) getting a larry buck box unless you enjoy elec work. (i do). below is a pic of the board with the stock relays removed and wires soldered in for the remote main relay. I hadn't done the other 2 yet when i took this pic.
 

Attachments

  • jbox-mod_03.JPG
    jbox-mod_03.JPG
    423.4 KB · Views: 14

bobct

Member
Member
There is a white wire with a red stripe (if I recall correctly) that runs below the JBox, it has a male/female bullet connector. Seperate that bullet connector and check for signs of arcing, clean both the male and female contacts.
I had a loose/corroded connection there and it killed everything, I'm not sure if I had turn signals but the only thing I had was emergency flashers, no dash lights, no power to starter button, etc.
Even if it isn't this connection it is a good thing to clean it up so it doesn't leave you on the side of road dead.
 

bpdutton

Member
Member
Same exact thing happened to me. Everything was fine one day, the next day everything was dead. I've seen enough of these "dead bike" posts to know that the first thing you do is disconnect everything connected to your battery terminals, clean everything thoroughly with sandpaper and then re-connect. Until you've done this you are just wasting time chasing other potential problems. This fixed my problem, hope it fixes yours.
 

WingMan71

Member
Member
junction box relay, main.
My guess. (if it isnt a loose wire somewhere

With the key on, tap on the junction box and see what happens. Just because you've never had trouble with the J box, doesn't mean it's not the problem. Larry Buck rebuilds J boxes. Mark in SC has a thread that shows a different way to go that puts easy to find automotive relays on the outside so that you can just go to autozone or other parts store and buy a relay to replace.

J box mod
Well...

You two win the "what the hell happened" award!

It's was the main relay in the junction box.
As soon as I tapped on the top half of the junction box with my knuckle, everything came back to life!

Don't ya just love a forum full of knowledgeable members! They'll pull your butt out of trouble every time!

Thanks every one for your help!
 

Cra-z1000

Member
Member
Well...

You two win the "what the hell happened" award!

It's was the main relay in the junction box.
As soon as I tapped on the top half of the junction box with my knuckle, everything came back to life!

Don't ya just love a forum full of knowledgeable members! They'll pull your butt out of trouble every time!

Thanks every one for your help!
You'll need to have that jbox re soldered or it will continue to happen .
 

Bud

Member
Member
Well...

You two win the "what the hell happened" award!

It's was the main relay in the junction box.
As soon as I tapped on the top half of the junction box with my knuckle, everything came back to life!

Don't ya just love a forum full of knowledgeable members! They'll pull your butt out of trouble every time!

Thanks every one for your help!
Glad it all worked out for you!
 

Tim R

Moderator
Staff member
Been there done that and got the tee shirt. A few years ago I was the wingman for a buddy on our way home from a rally. His jbox started acting up. He thought it was a fuse because his bike shut off ever so often. He would jigle the fuses and the bike would start and run again. We could not count on just how far the C10 would go. Mostly a long ways but that was to change.

He knew someone at the rally who carried a spare jbox and knew who this person was going to visit. (turned down the offer to lone) I had thrown an old membership hand book in my trunk. Using this we were able to contact the guys friends wife who relayed the msg we were stranded and to bring the spare jbox.

We were in a gas station parking lot for about 4 hours. we were down to start and run long enough to move 15 feet and then die again. It was hot and miserable. I did send him off with my C14 to get tools. I thought we could jump what ever relay was out but neither of us are elec types. In the end we could not get the jbox to come alive and was thankful when the spare arrived. There were no other problems for the rest of the trip home. EXCEPT due to a cold front moving in and with a 4 hour delay we had to run in cold weather. Neither of us were prepaired to run in cold weather cause it had been in the 100's.

We decided to stop for coffee and warm up. The guy at the gas station was a bout th throw out old corn dogs and offered them to us. Old crunchy corn dogs and hot coffee never tasted so good. Got back on the road and made it to his house. I spent the night on the couch. His cat liked me and made himself at home with me.

Now if the jbox had not acted up we would have arrived at his house four hours sooner and not froze

IMHO the hand book alone is worth the price of admission. It lets you know who will chat, who will help get a bike fixed and who is willing to put you up for the night. It has contact info for the industry members. It is printed and sent out every year with member updates and a bunch of other might be nice to know info.

If you are bashful about staying at someones house, I have had several COG members stay over night. Some stay on an annual basis and we ride out together headed for a rally. The wife said all are welcome back. That alone tells me the caliber of people this club has.

The forum does not show the real COG. some might have an excuse that they don't like riding in groups. In COG we ride our own ride. We are not packed up tight together more like a group headed in the same direction. If you want to run a head it's OK if youre not wanting to to stay with the group and fall behind that is OK too. I'm at an age now where I don't mind having someone around to keep a eye on me. Plus there is a chance for visiting while at a gas stop. I have to walk a little bit before mounting back up. I've had members offer spare gloves when mine soaked though on a rainy day. Then when at the rally site, meet up with old friends and probably make some new ones.

No burn outs in the parking lot and nothing gets broken. I been at a rally trying to get the room key. The girl at the desk was 17 and her first night at the desk. Everyone was respectful and patient with her. We finally did get our keys without the 17 YO running off in tears. It's little things like that makes this a great club.

Plus it is a lot better if someone is along with you when you break down in BFE with no cell service. Ok, OK rant off. Tim
 
Last edited:

Ranger Jim

Member
Member
Glad you got it figured out. Larry Buck is a quality guy that does quality work. I never had an issue with my J-box but carried an extra one in my right side pannier "just in case." Found one on eBay and had Larry refurbish it. Figured it was cheap insurance and it didn't take up much space.
 

m in sc

Member
Member
And yet the answer came from the forum. Just pointing that out.

I also carry a spare box on the red bike, (for now until i mod that one as well) and spare relays on the purple one. (that's the one with the modded j box).

You also -can- replace the stock relays as well, i did that on my buddies 01. again, if you are ok with elec work.

Glad you got it figured out.
 

Scary Harry

Fear is not boring. COG# 4090
Member
Industry Vendor
Happened to my C10 years ago when it was very hot out.
After the bike cooled off, it started right up.
I re-flowed the solder on the relay connections where the solder fractures were, and all the problems went away.

The holes in the circuit board are too big. Over time the solder cracks.
When I cleaned up the mess, I bent the relay tabs over so they made better contact with the circuit trace. That helped to anchor the relays down so they were less susceptible to vibration. Problem never returned.
 

lrbuck

Street Cruiser
Member
Industry Vendor
Thanks for the kind words guys. You might be interested in knowing how I got into repairing the J-boxes.

Many years ago I was planning to ride my 1st long distance rally in NC, called the Feast in the East, put on by a fellow COG member and SEAD, Bryan Moody.

While on a ride near Linville, NC, the bike stopped running. After 5 or 10 minutes on the side of the road, it started. I got back to where I was staying and tried to figure out what to do. The next day my wife and I were to go to Harrisburg, PA to visit family. Listen up. I dug out the COG Directory and looked for a member near Harrisburg. There was one, and I called him to explain my predicament. He said he had a J-box, and would sell it to me for $25. I met him the next day and was able to run the Rally.

Some of you may be on the fence about COG membership. If you travel at all, or are planning your next ride of a lifetime, do yourself a huge favor and join our Group. Besides the peace of mind, you'll get 4 issues of the Concourier a treasure trove of non-published C-10 and C-14 tech stuff, the REAL forum and an occasional Safety Column in the Concourier and all this tech stuff, Isn't your bike/hobby worth $3 bucks a month? I've been here for 22 years and I'm not tired of it yet. Some of the folks in this group have become good friends including younger ones too. I'm around people half my age nearly every weekend when I teach the MSF Rider Course. I keeps me young.............yeah, thats right, young.

Thanks for your support. I'll see you down the road, god willing. Lecture over,

Larry
 

Tim R

Moderator
Staff member
Besides the peace of mind, you'll get 4 issues of the Concourier a treasure trove of non-published C-10 and C-14 tech stuff, the REAL forum and an occasional Safety Column in the Concourier and all this tech stuff, Isn't your bike/hobby worth $3 bucks a month?

Could not have said it much better. Plus those who attend rally's and other COG events find the real COG. Nice guys and gals who often think like you. You will develope friends who are truely friends. Yes I am a moderator and have been for a long time. The COG people here in the NW as well as some other areas treat me like everyone else. They will tease me and I tease back. Have a problem on the road? COG people will either fix it or help you find someone who can. I am going through a pretty tough time in my life with some serious heatlh issues. COG friends still call and check up on me. Some who I don't expect. COG is more than a forum it is a family. 3 bucks a month is well worth it IMHO.
 

Ranger Jim

Member
Member
You know, I and many, many others have tried to explain to Forum Only Subscribers and the non-club members on the COG FaceBook page that they aren't experiencing the "REAL" Concours Owners Group. Very few have tried the "REAL" COG apparently preferring the virtual experience. Unfortunately, they'll never know what they've missed.
 

WingMan71

Member
Member
OK folks, , quit harpin' on the new guy for not signing up for membership. I'M SIGNED UP. (y)

BTW, I've been trying to sign up for a membership for the past few months on the old site. Wouldn't work for me.

The sign up attempt failed every time at the exact same spot so I eventually just gave up. When the dialog box to "Select a Membership Type" came up there was no way to do so. No selection options appeared in that dialog box and you couldn't continue without making a selection. Catch 22! I took a screen capture of the problem screen, but I can't figure out a way to insert a picture of it in this post. Doesn't matter now, the old site is gone.

All good now, because I just tried the "Upgrade Your Membership" procedure on the new site and that finally worked. I'm signed up.

PS) Already sent my J-Box off to Larry Buck for repair and upgrade, so I should be up and running again soon.
 
Top