no, he's guessing. the bike he has showed 133, and is likely a bit sick. The 162 came from a bike in Greece, and I don't think it was using one of our correction factors.Am I seeing 133.6 to 162 with just the BW Header/Exhaust cam?
What did the plot look like? ie; Low end torque or Hiccups in the plot?
I see that the part number changed from 09 to 10. See posts 21 and 22 for accurate infoAny idea which year the billet exhaust cam came out of or part number on it by chance??
Going to stop responding using my cell phone while in the shop, we do not have any misunderstandings,So you're using kapetanidis' mapping? Did he put it on mapshare? I remember when he first posted this online, didn't know he made it public.
BTW, I hope you looked at the oil holes in the cam, for some reason I'm thinking when I was working into this, there was something I was needing to do / study regarding the zx oil holes being different than the zg holes on the right side of the cam. Can't look at it now, i gave the cams to Chris Jones.
ETA - I found the cam timing. ALL timing done at .050" lift
ZG intake w/vvt: LC 120*
OP 10 ATDC
CL 50 ABDC
lift .320
220* @ .050"
ZG EX OP 29 BBDC (has a note that this was on a zx intake sprocket for a 100* LC, no recollection)
CL 1 BTDC
LC 105
.300 lift
208 @ .050"
ZX EX OP 36 BBDC
CL 10 ATDC
LC 103
lift .330
226 @ .050
Steve
Cast iron or in the material of the ZG camshaft is Chilled cast iron they are extremely hard wearing and have excellent longevity with low-cost productivity the drawback being heavy.I just checked the ones I have; they weigh the same and look the same. Both are billet. The only difference is the c14 has an oil groove on the journal between the #4 lobes. The zx has .030 more lift and a visually more aggressive lobe profile. So that's really weird, possibly changed it for cost savings, maybe?
I noticed the Greece reference. Not the first time I've heard of it.
Looked at your pictures and noticed the ZX and ZG sprockets looked identical so went and looked up the part numbers and early production ZG build 2007 through 2010 used steel Camshafts and shared the same part number with early 2006 through late 2007 ZX # 12046-0057 sprockets Intake & Exhaust for the ZX are marked with both timing marks and are not interchangeable with 2011 the year they switched to Cast camshafts since the center hole is larger on the cast cam sprocket 12046-0085 to accommodate the different camshaftI just checked the ones I have; they weigh the same and look the same. Both are billet. The only difference is the c14 has an oil groove on the journal between the #4 lobes. The zx has .030 more lift and a visually more aggressive lobe profile. So that's really weird, possibly changed it for cost savings, maybe?
I noticed the Greece reference. Not the first time I've heard of it.
No Kidding cast iron and steel are the same in pure density Anything made out of cast iron rather than steel is heavier because it needs to be much thicker. Cast iron has lower strength so to be durable needs to be thicker.Cast iron (chilled or not) and steel effectively weigh the same. The only difference in this case is if the cast one was gun drilled to the same ID as the steel one. Probably not since cast iron is more brittle than steel, and the thin section would be more prone to cracking.
The external piping you speak of is specifically for the variable valve timing actuator on the end of the intake cam.
Agreed 100 Percent John and that's kind of my thoughts as well, My Feelings are the Concours 14 is the last of the real Japanese comfortable typical big engine brutes. Something they did very well for many years!I'd love to see this work as well.
ZX14 forks, exhaust cam and a good rear shock would make for a nice upgrade to a great bike.
Good find there,Ted. I just looked too and BOTH cams appear to be cast. I also just looked at the pictures of the 2013 that I worked on and they were both cast. My memory is going along with my eyes.2010 and on appear to be cast.
Hi Ted, I had just picked the bike up that night we spoke on the phone the past owner changed the driveline fluids ( Yep gear oil was super low as expected when you refill it on the side stand) and engine oil, I didn't even have 40 miles on it when we rolled it on the shop dyno and noticed it was slightly below the top line. you have two lines on the site glass first line is low, second is upper, the imaginary line in the middle with the machine standing perpendicular is the correct line.Question; Was the current oil level very high and caused this recently?
Was it oil that accumulated over time and should have drained or been sucked back into the crank case?
ie; Did a drain back system fail?
Reason for Q: Wondering if others might have the same issue. (even with slight overfills)
If you use the ZX throttle bodies, don't they use larger injectors too?
Watch your Drag race Buddy.
,,,,,,,,, Those Drag Race guys are sneaky Devil's.
Ride safe, Ted
PS:
Another explanation for low peak HP.
The bike isn't RED. <evil grin>
The reason is every tolerance is never perfect on mass-produced engines and a few MM here ends up a lot more over there, So we Degree using slotted cam gears.One question i have and have always pondered.. What is the point of degreeing a camshaft if they're not adjustable? On most vehicles you can advance or retard them 1 tooth on the chain or belt but that would throw it way off. The gears are pinned or keyed to the cams so you can move them that way. Again, just pondering..
I could see that, Wrenching for a bunch of years I can tell you some stories, Last year a customer dropped off his older carb Yamaha cruiser but they should be really clean he told the service adviser cause he stored the bike in his Shed filled with seafoam before leaving overseas two years earlier.I rebuilt the carb on somebody's little honda generator. Oil was everywhere. He said when he filled the oil he tipped it back on a degree 45 angle and filled her up! Then it wouldn't start and sat for 3 years, he was going to by a new one. So I offered to clean the carb and found the oil. It now runs like new.
From what we could see there was a total of four holes cross-drilled and grooved at the first journal gear side and the second journal four cross-drilled thinking the story there is bleed off due to the VVT cause the journals on the head are grooved as well and not really seeing why it requires or needs extra lubrication what are your thoughts? We also pulled the galley plugs to measure the inner diameter with the cast having a smaller diameter due to it being a weaker material, So fingers crossed nothing missed and this all works if not and she blows then I offer the parts to the gods of speed and start all over and maybe due away with the VVT and go ZX head and Cams.Other than the groove, what other oil passages need to be added? Glad to see you getting this done.
I'm sure there's a formula for throttle body size as related to horsepower supported. But I personally would run as small as possible for rideability, and still get close to max horsepower. But drag racers usually think differently
I learned something here. 2 of the external pipes supply oil to the vvt actuator for advance and retard duties. The other 2 have nothing to do with vvt actuation. Those other 2 pipes supply and return pressurized oil up and over from the intake side to the exhaust cam, down into the center bore of the ex cam, then back up and over to the intake cam, apparently to supply the left-hand half of the in cam with oil. Had to study it a bit and think about why. But I believe the answer is because the right-hand half of the intake cam is essentially a solid shaft with only a small, blind, oil passage feeding the vvt. So, they had to bypass the solid core portion of the intake cam.From what we could see there was a total of four holes cross-drilled and grooved at the first journal gear side and the second journal four cross-drilled thinking the story there is bleed off due to the VVT cause the journals on the head are grooved as well and not really seeing why it requires or needs extra lubrication what are your thoughts?
I was rooting for you…. Suggest #3….Started this project cause on a tuning site I belong to there was one tuner that did the swap and he posted the power gains and they were impressive but he never talked about machining the cam only said direct bolt-in but just dropping it in lacking what I feel is some important oil grooving and holes to make it last
Had Dropped both the stock ZG & ZX camshafts off to our Machinist back in the middle of April to cross oil drill and full groove the ZX camshaft.
Called me today to let me know they can not work with the camshaft since the Journals are hard chromed on the ZX cam and there is no way without destroying the product! (Though here is the Early ZX 2006 to 2007 Camshafts were hard-chromed) 2008 they changed part numbers but not the cam profiles lift duration only did away with hard chromed or this is already been modified ZX 14 Camshaft done years ago by a company like B&B cause the ZX motors experienced camshaft journals that galled from heat and high loaded RPM.
With that being said and by the way, pretty bummed out cause really wanted to do this project but not all is completely lost there is one good option here!
1- Work with the stock ZG camshaft and have the lobes hard welded and machined to ZX 14 Profile and continue with ZX 14 cam profile
2- Use the ZG14 Camshaft and Retard timing 2 to 4 degrees theoretically it should help power at higher rpm by holding the valve open longer extending the duration for the exhaust to evacuate and helping with a higher top end.
3- Already own three extremely fast bikes convince me that I do not need a 690-pound fast bike, Just add a better suspension leave the ZX 14 throttle bodies on it, and ride it for what it is
Thanks, Wayne! Black widow header with Akrapovič mufflerI was rooting for you…. Suggest #3….
A freer flowing exhaust (uncertain what you have) then leave the ZX throttle bodies on and spend the money tuning vs machining and tuning. I would believe there is certainly a good amount to gain by freeing up the intake a bit alongside the exhaust. If I recall you were looking for top end anyhow.
Wayne, Carol & Blue
I don't see any pictures of cams in this thread with hard chromed journals. Is it a different cam? There's no reason a factory cam would be chromed, it's not something that would be done on a massed produced item. I know when cam lobes are hard welded and reground with a new profile; after welding, the camshaft is straightened. But it can't be straightened good enough so they grind the journals underside about .005/.010" then chrome them up twice that amount and regrind the chrome back down to stock size. Then regrind the lobes. That whole process costs $1500 for a single camshaft.
The oiling problem kawasaki has with the zx14 motors is with the #3 rod journal. Not the cam. I have a 14r crank that needs #3 rod journal dusted or at least polished. It's for sale. With shipping and repair to CA and back would still be under half cost of new.
My mom says when I was 2yo sitting in the highchair, that I would make motor sounds while running a cookie across the tray. that would have been 1959 so I wasn't flooded with internet screens showing motors. Just born that way. I learned some about motorcycle engines in the minisprint days around 1990. Thats a gsxr 1100 bored to 1200, methonal, 14.5 compression, very tall and short cams. The throttle bodies I cut off the float bowls of 44 mikuni flat slides. and mounted all to a plate then spliced in all the Hilborn stuff. Ran the nozzles directly into the port, aimed at the valves. Ran the hilborn pump off the rh side of the in cam. Bill Hahn mag.Often think about what makes guys like us want to build faster bikes when others say but you have a fast bike or just buy a fast bike, Were MotorHeads, Hot Rodders the last of humans to think like us cause the next decade will be all about riding the torq of electric.
That picture shows when Mini Sprints were Downright Mean and nasty fast cars, Early GS & GSX Motors were and still are some of the best engines and held more Records in drag racing than any other Motorcycle engine. So used the Carb bodies to move air for the Hilborn that's pretty coolMy mom says when I was 2yo sitting in the highchair, that I would make motor sounds while running a cookie across the tray. that would have been 1959 so I wasn't flooded with internet screens showing motors. Just born that way. I learned some about motorcycle engines in the minisprint days around 1990. Thats a gsxr 1100 bored to 1200, methonal, 14.5 compression, very tall and short cams. The throttle bodies I cut off the float bowls of 44 mikuni flat slides. and mounted all to a plate then spliced in all the Hilborn stuff. Ran the nozzles directly into the port, aimed at the valves. Ran the hilborn pump off the rh side of the in cam. Bill Hahn mag.
Do you remember how you over some the vertical shaft thing? We couldn't do a bike and didn't have a clutch so we chisled a hole in the bottom of a wagon and but a pulley on the axle. Attached wheels to axle. Had to push motor with your feet to engage. Geared to high to get going so we tried it downhill. Myself and the motor both flew out of the wagon at the bottom of the hill. Good times!When I was that age, I worked on Lawn Mower motors. And bolted them on my bicycle.
Does that count?
Ride safe, Ted
PS: Ok/ok,,, It was actually my brother's bicycle, but he didn't know I took it.
We used GS1150s bored to 1200 (rule limit). that's the ones we ran the magnetos on to avoid a battery. Starter was handheld. Switched to GSX for light weight, plain bearing crank and oil cooling. I couldn't tell much difference. All cranks, rods, and pistons came from Falicon.Early GS & GSX Motors were and still are some of the best
Nice!Myself and the motor both flew out of the wagon at the bottom of the hill. Good times!
They didn't have lawns or mowers back then!When I was that age, I worked onLawn Mower motors..tumble weeds and sage brush.
Nice my first built purpose-built drag bike was based on the GS1100E motor we also used falicon cranks and their other parts but over the years there were some issues with their products thinking about where they sourced their metal from gotta say the old guy Glen would stand by the product and replace it but not your ventilated block, There are gone now since 2018 closed up shop in Fla they were acquired by race-winning brands same guys that own JE Pistons, Wiseco Performance Products, K1 Technologies, Diamond Pistons, Trend Performance, Dart Machinery, Rekluse Motor Sports, and ProX Racing Parts. It seems they killed off Falicon.We used GS1150s bored to 1200 (rule limit). that's the ones we ran the magnetos on to avoid a battery. Starter was handheld. Switched to GSX for light weight, plain bearing crank and oil cooling. I couldn't tell much difference. All cranks, rods, and pistons came from Falicon.
Nice!
They didn't have lawns or mowers back then!
I bought an 85 GS1150ES rolling chassis years ago that didn't have a thousand miles on it. The guy bought the bike to get the engine for a mini sprint car. I managed to find an engine in Canada and put it all together. Nice bike with lots of grunt. Years later I bought a GS1150E that I was gonna rehab but didn't. Advertised the engine on dragbike.com. It sold pretty quickly as I recall.That picture shows when Mini Sprints were Downright Mean and nasty fast cars, Early GS & GSX Motors were and still are some of the best engines and held more Records in drag racing than any other Motorcycle engine. So used the Carb bodies to move air for the Hilborn that's pretty cool
Hahaha Mom would say similar things about me My Family is from Italy and me being first Gen American. All the men in our family rode and raced cars and bikes and my Moms brother my Uncle owned a Motorcycle Dealership in NYC that sold Moto Guzzis, Ducati, Laverda, and Triumph so I grew up in this working between the bike shop and my grandfathers Gas Station knowing nothing else I made a good life from things that run on Gasoline.
Can’t wait to see the results!My thoughts are swapping cams is not going to give up torq but add more right in the heart of the Mid-Range, That five grand Dip might disappear?
You and me both it’s been a rough project with some set- backs and almost threw the towel in!Can’t wait to see the results!
Wayne
Get that thing tuned and let’s see what you got! Awesome to hear the experimenting and testing is continuing - very exciting!She runs! ZX14 throttle Bodies, Zx14 exhaust cam, Black Widow header Zx14 oil pump plate gear and relief valve / high oil pressure and volume. Manual cam chain adjuster,Sounds good no oil or coolant leaks.
The exhaust sound from the stock muffler is loud and raspy combination of high lift and longer duration. Trying to post a video but it seems this site will not let me
It "IS ALIVE"!She runs! ZX14 throttle Bodies, Zx14 exhaust cam, Black Widow header Zx14 oil pump plate gear and relief valve / high oil pressure and volume. Manual cam chain adjuster,Sounds good no oil or coolant leaks.
The exhaust sound from the stock muffler is loud and raspy combination of high lift and longer duration. Trying to post a video but it seems this site will not let me
COG member brings down YouTube:Thanks for the Advice I tried everything to no avail so I created a y tube account, this way I can post future updates
The link is not broken. It works for me.This is strange the link here is broke but working perfectly on y tube and Facebook
I can see/hear it.Posting a y tube link
Working on Ted’s link - she be running.I can see/hear it.
(Sounds good. Almost a lumpy idle)
Now that I've seen it, I wanna see it goooooo...
Ride safe, Ted
Hello Sean, Glad you liked it, and thank you! My Responses will be 1 through 4 to match your questions in that orderHello Jeff. I have been following your build for several months. Just want to commend you for your time and diligence invested thus far. The YouTube video is very interesting. The motor sounds real strong ! Based on your feedback and final dyno pulls, I will make a decision weather to install a exhaust cam in my Connie. I have a 2009 with a flash, AreaP full system and PC. It will dyno at 165 hp. My guess is your setup should produce 175 hp on pump gas. This is very strong for a all motor Connie. You and Laker did discuss the frame strength of the Connie. I was unaware that the frame had a limit. Any way this can be strengthened ? Laker mentioned a H frame bracket I believe. Any specs for this ? I have several additional questions for you Sir:
1) Throttle Body upgrade: Unable to find any real data on before and after gains. In my set-up I believe I would loose TQ in the power band due to less velocity. In your set-up, it should work well. Real curious on this one....
2) Installing the cam would be a drop-in, correct ? Is there a need to degree ?
3) What was the cost of drilling and groove work from WEB ?
4) What year exhaust cam do I purchase for the build ?
Thank you,
Sean
Some great questions Ted! Let me try and break it down the best way i can for you to understand.I readily admit that I'm not a tuner / not a Cam guy; Trying to understand the ZX Ex Cam install more.
On Sean's question/your answer #2, and based on your previous note. (see below)
*If you set the Lobe centerlines at the same point (105*) wouldn't the duration of the ZX Ex cam (Ex Valve starts opening sooner) cause more overlap than a ZG Ex Cam at low RPM's?
**If so, wouldn't actual compression be lower? (ie; Less actual compression may develop less low end torque)
***Also; If you used a ZG Cam Gear, is the Lobe CL located the same as if you used a stock ZX Cam gear?
ie; If you used the timing marks on the different Cam gears, are both cam's ground to have the same CL?
Ride safe, Ted
Camshaft Calculations - Lobe Center / Duration using ZG14 Intake cam and ZG14 Exhaust cam
Your Concours 14 has an Overlap of 39.00 degrees and has an Intake Duration of 272.00 degrees. The Exhaust Duration is 254.00 degrees. Your Lobe Separation Angle is 112.00 degrees. The Inlet Cam has an Installed Centerline of 119.00 degrees ATDC. The exhaust cam has an Installed Centerline of 105.00 degrees BTDC.
Camshaft Calculations - Lobe Center / Duration using ZG14 Intake cam and ZX14 Exhaust cam
Your Concours 14 has an Overlap of 51.00 degrees and has an Intake Duration of 272.00 degrees. The Exhaust Duration is 278.00 degrees. Your Lobe Separation Angle is 112.00 degrees. The Inlet Cam has an Installed Centerline of 119.00 degrees ATDC. The exhaust cam has an Installed Centerline of 105.00 degrees BTDC.
Camshaft Overlap has no effect on dynamic compression it’s intake valve closing that effects it more then anything! That’s why I mentioned the VVT controlling the intake cam timing. To build horsepower the VVT retards as rpm climb, advanced is at lower rpm for throttle response and torqueThanks Jeff. When I sed Actual compression, I used the wrong word.
I was referring to Dynamic Compression Ratio.
ie; What the actual compression would be when the compression ratio is affected by valves opening/closing/ etc.
My guess is with more overlap from the ZX Ex cam, the actual compression (pressure) will be lower at low RPM's than a bike with a ZG Cam?
See no feeble mind your on the right track!So that we're on the same page, I'm referring to basic VVT with low throttle openings (for riding/cruising), not WOT accell's.
Bear with me.
I have to work this out (step by step) in my feeble little mind.
I want to emphasize that all the sentences should start with "I think"..
In my little mind;
When the ramps of the Exhaust and Intake Cam Lobes "overlap" the cam lobes hold the valves partially open.
NOTE: In an engine cycle; the exhaust valve closes just before the intake valve opens.
So, the "Cam lobe overlap" is between the closing side of the Exhaust Cam Lobe, and the opening side of the Intake Cam lobe.
With cam overlap, "both" valves are slightly open during the overlap period.
& (With the valves partially open) compression can't build properly.
The greater the Intake advance/overlap, the more time the valves are open at the same time.
With no Intake valve advance / no overlap; the exhaust would be closed before the intake starts to open. (Like my Model T Engine)
With more intake valve advance / more overlap; the Exhaust valve is open when the intake starts to open.
With less intake valve advance / Less overlap; the Exhaust Valve is almost closed when the intake starts to open.
Am I on the right track?
Geez, my head hurts!
Ride safe, Ted
We run similar circles, Sean The Busa mod as well as the GSX-R intake cam mod we were doing a few years ago with great results.Enjoy this discussion Troops ! Cams are the science of performance. In my previous motorcycles, I installed a intake cam in the exhaust side and produced impressive gains. They were Suzuki model GSXR 1000 and Gen 1 Busa. The best setting was 106/104 if I can recall. One of the local drag racers at the time, was beating all the stronger Busa's with just the two intake cams ver stage one's. I can see this working well on the Concourse. Jeff, I would really like to see what you could pull with better exhaust, raised rev limit(flash) and a few other tricks. I feel you could pull 175(+) on a daily driver. Very impressive with no head work. Wanted to offer another hot rod trick making the rounds on the ZX-14 forums. Run a ZX10R flywheel & stator with custom spacer on the Connie. You are taking a pound of rotating mass off the assembly. I have seen a 3hp gain doing this. SAE Outlaw racing also makes a titanium clutch basket kit that also reduces weight. I believe this will fit the Connie. A few questions:
1) Any issues running the upgraded pressure valve in the Connie ? Would this create too much pressure for the proper function of the VVT ? I was previously advised not to run the pressure valve as it would cause other issues. Does the stock valve blow off at 90 psi ?...Curious.
2) Any way to strengthen the mounting points you mentioned on the frame ? Laker previously mentioned some sort of H bracket to reduce the shock to the driveline. How would I make one of these ? Photo ?...Laker, chime in.
3) Your final dyno pull was 161.20, correct ?
4) What oil are you running ?
5) Did you remove the back torque limiter ?
Thank you,
Sean
Intelligent Engineering with Beautiful Craftmanship hats off to you Laker, Do you market this fix?No cup holder, flower sniffin or 2-hour lunch's here. I'll post up some pictures for your viewing pleasure. I actually forgot what I had already figured out 10 years ago when I went thru this. While I do agree that the frame probably comes into play after the gyrations start. The main culprit is the axle! That poor skinny but LONG rear axle is asked to tie both sides of the tetra-lever system together all by itself. If you remove the wheel/axle you will notice that the 2 sides are completely independent. Because of the flexy axle, the drive shaft side starts to move up and down before the right side and eventually you have an axle that looks like a whip. Unlike a normal swingarm which is cast as one piece, or if a welded unit, it will have a giant gusset just in front of the tire. The more power the beefier the swingarm. So, my H-frame addresses this by tying the 2 sides together and consequently does transfer some of the load to the upper strut tabs, thereby reducing the stress on the swingarm mounts. I wish I would have added more gusseting but since its already electroless nickel plated i didn't want to mess that up with more welding. But it works just fine the way it is. No more high-speed wobbles. For those that are unaware, I had an issue of the rear tire moving 2 inches total, left and right at the top of the tire, while riding in Mexico around some high-speed sweepers. And it continued to get worse even at lower speeds like in Missouri. I'm told by the nice folks on the other forum that machinists are a dime a dozen and basically anybody can do this. So, it really should be common knowledge.
I forgot to mention anything about cams.
Thanks Dave I probably could use your set up on this bike in the future so I will reach out come winterI might make some of the H frames. Sadly, that was a cut and fit kind of project, and I didn't make any drawings. So, I'd have to take mine apart to copy and make sure the new one fit. So that might happen this winter if somebody wanted one. The other thing is, in Jeffs case, where he's massively twisting the rear wheel (because of the driveshaft), it may also overpower the upper strut tabs where the H frame attaches. So that may need some gusseting. I'd have to look at it. The H frame is 90% of the fix, the rest of that stuff is nice and rock solid, but probably unnecessary, especially for straight line work.
Thank you Jeff. Your response is five star. Just want to elaborate on a few points. Regarding the oil lubrication upgrades to the ZX/ZG motors. I already have the oil pump plate and K/P engineering oil filter installed. I attempted to install the oil gear (Robinson,) and it did not fit. Called Robinsons and determined it would not fit the Connie. For whatever reason, the Connie oiling system is different from the ZX-14. I suspect VVT.We run similar circles, Sean The Busa mod as well as the GSX-R intake cam mod we were doing a few years ago with great results.
We did the ZX10R stator on the Grudge roller, The engine spooled up so quick but I need the heavy flywheel in this street bike to gett its big ass rolling
1) no issues at all running the upgraded pressure valve and do not foresee any, all it does Sean is to allow oil pressure to keep climbing up to 110psi (40psi higher than stock) if needed in the most extreme to ensure plenty of oil flow to key components such as rod bearings and cam buckets so it's not a conversion to a 110 psi oil system full time, Kawasaki should have fixed on the ZG engine when they released the 2012 ZX14R that received the updated oil pump to help the Rods and mains that were blowing up on the Early ZX motors, I did it more for the shitty top end oiling that Kawasaki floods the exhaust cam journals and transfers with pipes to the Intake journals since my plan is to rev it higher and longer. The other thing to point out is those 12 o-rings for the VVT for camshaft oiling should be changed at every valve adjustment cause the ones I pulled on my 7000-mile bike were hard and the valve cover keeps the pipes locked down but does not prevent leakage so just an FYI spend the 70 bucks!
The upgrade is three parts = The High Volume Oil Pump Gear is a direct bolt-in replacement for the OEM oil pump gear. This gear causes the pump to turn at faster speeds which increases oil volume something the ZG lacks and thus pressure at a lower RPM. 32psi with stock gear. 52psi with high volume gear. 6000RPM, 72psi stock high volume gear. Billet Oil Pump Cover replaces the stock cast aluminum unit that flexes and loses its seal with high pressure.
The VVT system is a Mitsubishi automotive system that Kawasaki purchased the rights to just like the KiPASS and the ECU, Their rally cars run over 120 psi with no issues
2) Yes there is a way to strengthen the frame mounting points and I believe the honorary knowledgeable Laker is the man!! on that so hopefully he exits the seat and cup holder conversations and chimes in on the fun page, PLEASE NOTE PEOPLE OF COG I WAS JUST JOKING ABOUT SEATS AND CUP-HOLDERS REALLY WAS
3) My final run was 161.20 blowing 150 MPH air into the ram air, No other tuning was done except raising the Rev Limiter and adjusting the AFR, Adding notes below on the dyno I,m using!
4) Shell Rotella T6 15w40 purchased at Walmart by the gallon Let me tell you why! for 37 years I have been in the Diesel world mostly as a mechanic and the last seven as a service Manager before moving on to my boujee job of diagnostic software.
So in my expert opinion Millions of trucks in America support a supply chain, Those engines although are low revving have massive gear trains and connecting rod bearings the size of motorcycle gears, extremely close tolerance hi-pressure rail fuel system that shear oil viscosity and reduces it to Iced tea, Shell Rotella like other name brand Diesel oils are trusted to a level of National Security to keep the supply chain moving! Besides the amount of zinc in the oil is big and these big motorcycle cam buckets just love it, with all the oil testing we have done the guys in the Road race shop also use it and only slap Motul stickers on the side of the bike when it's paying out that race, That's right boys and girls the AMA winning 1000cc Aprilia Champ runs truck oil its also Jaso certified for wet clutch although they run dry clutch. But it's no secret Sean those Gold Wing riders have been using it since the 80s logging 300 thousand miles!
5) back-torque limiter, is long gone its got the Brocks kit, for now, it's staying in this bike since it will be my Touring bike or maybe even my frequent everyday bike since I rarely use four wheels and ride to the office every day on a bike, This Concours is growing on me the ride is so smooth and this Whale goes around turns better than my 433-pound street fighter, still scratching my head, But it will be useful if and when I drag race it
We have three Dynos with the newest being a SuperFlow SF250A, and Factory Pro EC997 both of those being state-of-the-art technology, Unlike my road racing brothers I'm the low guy on the pole being the dirty Harley drag racer stuck with using a very old Dyno Jet, Actually, the way it happened that day of the Stock baseline run the other two were in use so to stay true to myself I have continued to use it. Compared to the other Dynos this one tends to be very Happy with its numbers by four percent even after updates and I only use SAE correction factors.
Also do not consider myself a gifted tuner although I get by! and hopefully, a deal goes through for a really good tune and that will let me continue my Concours tuning
Hello Laker. Thank you very much regarding your response to the frame issue on the Connie. I really appreciate the engineering in your H bracket. It looks very sturdy indeed ! I would be very interested in this product. Let me know a ballpark cost and we can start the planning/fabrication process. Having 90 % of the fix is good enough for me Laker. I'm a street rider, no drag racing. I do enjoy rev-limiter runs thou...lol.I might make some of the H frames. Sadly, that was a cut and fit kind of project, and I didn't make any drawings. So, I'd have to take mine apart to copy and make sure the new one fit. So that might happen this winter if somebody wanted one. The other thing is, in Jeffs case, where he's massively twisting the rear wheel (because of the driveshaft), it may also overpower the upper strut tabs where the H frame attaches. So that may need some gusseting. I'd have to look at it. The H frame is 90% of the fix, the rest of that stuff is nice and rock solid, but probably unnecessary, especially for straight line work.
Beautiful !No cup holder, flower sniffin or 2-hour lunch's here. I'll post up some pictures for your viewing pleasure. I actually forgot what I had already figured out 10 years ago when I went thru this. While I do agree that the frame probably comes into play after the gyrations start. The main culprit is the axle! That poor skinny but LONG rear axle is asked to tie both sides of the tetra-lever system together all by itself. If you remove the wheel/axle you will notice that the 2 sides are completely independent. Because of the flexy axle, the drive shaft side starts to move up and down before the right side and eventually you have an axle that looks like a whip. Unlike a normal swingarm which is cast as one piece, or if a welded unit, it will have a giant gusset just in front of the tire. The more power the beefier the swingarm. So, my H-frame addresses this by tying the 2 sides together and consequently does transfer some of the load to the upper strut tabs, thereby reducing the stress on the swingarm mounts. I wish I would have added more gusseting but since its already electroless nickel plated i didn't want to mess that up with more welding. But it works just fine the way it is. No more high-speed wobbles. For those that are unaware, I had an issue of the rear tire moving 2 inches total, left and right at the top of the tire, while riding in Mexico around some high-speed sweepers. And it continued to get worse even at lower speeds like in Missouri. I'm told by the nice folks on the other forum that machinists are a dime a dozen and basically anybody can do this. So, it really should be common knowledge.
I forgot to mention anything about cams.
Hi Sean and thanks for your kind words! A more aggressive tune will be coming along with a videos of 1/4 mile passes. Really sorry they told you the ZG/ZX do not share the same lower end oil components. And really not sure how they determined it so I listed both parts list that show part numbers. Just an FYI the main parts of the oil gyro pump do not get replaced, just the plate and gear and that needs to be pressed off and on. Again not sure why a manufacturer told you the pumps # 16154-0047 is different between the two and how they determined high volume and 20psi over stock pressure can effect the VVT negatively. Also Sean one last thought on that is the Connie’s are not losing Rod bearing maybe because the vocation of the bike and different rider I’m sure 99.9 percent don’t shift there concours at 9800rpm. If I can help you in anyway just PM me. Good luck with the build!! Ohh and there is a guy on FB and you tube that got his concours in the Low 9s running ZX14 body work, Brock’s parts and flashed by Ivan’sThank you Jeff. Your response is five star. Just want to elaborate on a few points. Regarding the oil lubrication upgrades to the ZX/ZG motors. I already have the oil pump plate and K/P engineering oil filter installed. I attempted to install the oil gear (Robinson,) and it did not fit. Called Robinsons and determined it would not fit the Connie. For whatever reason, the Connie oiling system is different from the ZX-14. I suspect VVT.
I will do more research regarding the pressure valve in the Connie. I was informed by several performance shops that excessive pressure may cause damage to other components, I like your analysis thou. I run T6 synthetic in the bikes. Thank you for the o-ring replacement thought. As far as kawasaki fixing the oiling system in the 2012 ZX-14R, it didn't happen. The 14R's are loosing #3 rod bearing all over the Country in all sorts of conditions. The forums are full of horror stories. The oil mods are a absolute must in my opinion. The Connie motors do not seem to eat rod bearings Jeff. I feel you have more hidden (hp) in your Connie, just needs a aggressive flash/tune and a performance muffler. I want to see the camshaft shine brother ! Based on your camshaft research for the Connie, I will start gathering the parts I need to do the install. I'm excited about the project. To be continued....
Thank you,
Sean
I'll let you know but its gonna be November. Your temporary status may be up by then.Let me know a ballpark cost and we can start the planning/fabrication
Hello Laker. I was just looking at the photos of the H bracket and assorted bushings. Looking at photo #1, the H bracket : Would you strengthen the top of the H like you strengthened the middle ? Another words, place a triangle reinforcement on the top part of the H. I would believe that would have a significant amount of stress within the bracket...JMONo cup holder, flower sniffin or 2-hour lunch's here. I'll post up some pictures for your viewing pleasure. I actually forgot what I had already figured out 10 years ago when I went thru this. While I do agree that the frame probably comes into play after the gyrations start. The main culprit is the axle! That poor skinny but LONG rear axle is asked to tie both sides of the tetra-lever system together all by itself. If you remove the wheel/axle you will notice that the 2 sides are completely independent. Because of the flexy axle, the drive shaft side starts to move up and down before the right side and eventually you have an axle that looks like a whip. Unlike a normal swingarm which is cast as one piece, or if a welded unit, it will have a giant gusset just in front of the tire. The more power the beefier the swingarm. So, my H-frame addresses this by tying the 2 sides together and consequently does transfer some of the load to the upper strut tabs, thereby reducing the stress on the swingarm mounts. I wish I would have added more gusseting but since its already electroless nickel plated i didn't want to mess that up with more welding. But it works just fine the way it is. No more high-speed wobbles. For those that are unaware, I had an issue of the rear tire moving 2 inches total, left and right at the top of the tire, while riding in Mexico around some high-speed sweepers. And it continued to get worse even at lower speeds like in Missouri. I'm told by the nice folks on the other forum that machinists are a dime a dozen and basically anybody can do this. So, it really should be common knowledge.
I forgot to mention anything about cams.
That was mentioned in post 81.Would you strengthen the top of the H like you strengthened the middle?
Hello Jeff. What oil pump gear are you using in the Connie ? I tried the Robinson's and it did not fit...ThanxHi Sean and thanks for your kind words! A more aggressive tune will be coming along with a videos of 1/4 mile passes. Really sorry they told you the ZG/ZX do not share the same lower end oil components. And really not sure how they determined it so I listed both parts list that show part numbers. Just an FYI the main parts of the oil gyro pump do not get replaced, just the plate and gear and that needs to be pressed off and on. Again not sure why a manufacturer told you the pumps # 16154-0047 is different between the two and how they determined high volume and 20psi over stock pressure can effect the VVT negatively. Also Sean one last thought on that is the Connie’s are not losing Rod bearing maybe because the vocation of the bike and different rider I’m sure 99.9 percent don’t shift there concours at 9800rpm. If I can help you in anyway just PM me. Good luck with the build!! Ohh and there is a guy on FB and you tube that got his concours in the Low 9s running ZX14 body work, Brock’s parts and flashed by Ivan’s
Link to Oil Pump mod parts
Not a big issue David! Really glad you are going to market your work, you are a talented craftsman. That's what it's really all about!!Somewhere between $300-$400 depending on how well it goes and the actual cost of powder coat. I threw in 25 for that. I have had other inquiries and I'll probably have to build some kind of down and dirty jig which hasn't been factored in. But I would eat that if I can get enough interest.
The cost surprised me too but there's more to it than meets the eye. For instance, the rod ends and rod end adaptors plus tubing costs is $80, powder coat 25? possibly buy stamped out gussets $10 each for 40 total. 5 pieces of tubing to prep and 12 welds. Adds up quick.
And 2 clevis ends to make from scratch of 4130n solid. Tubing is 4130n 1"od x .065 wall. Might go to .083 wall on that cross piece.
Im going to try to move all this H frame stuff over to the vendor area. Stepped on Jeffs thread pretty bad.
Hello Jeff. What oil pump gear are you using in the Connie ? I tried the Robinson's and it did not fit...Thanx