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ZX-14 or ZX-14R Exhaust for a C-14?

connie_rider

Member
Member
To all that have installed a ZX Exhaust (or other) on a Connie; Here is my sad story.

Recently I purchased a (2013) ZX-14R OEM Header that I may install on my Connie.
NOTE: I already love the way the bike runs, but wanted a project.
          Reason for the 2013 ZX-R exhaust in this project;
                The header has no Catalytic Converter.
                Headpipes are the largest of the ZX-14 systems.
                Exit ports on the system is the same size as the stock exhaust or the midpipe of my Area P slip on. 

Looks like this;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-Kawasaki-ZX14r-Header-Exhaust-/111820733387?hash=item1a0908fbcb:g:qncAAOSw~bFWQaA2&vxp=mtr

I know that some of you have removed (or talked about removing) their Cats, and some of you have installed ZX-14 exhausts.

Would you share your thoughts with me? 
To those that have installed the ZX-14 headers,,, is it worth doing, and what are the pitfalls?

Ride safe, Ted
 

gpink

Sport Tourer
You will need a left side mid pipe and fashion a hanger for it. May be clearance issues with the side stand and center stand. Are you going with a second area p?
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
You may disagree, but my thought is to remove the left exhaust port entirely and smooth the reducer contour towards the right exhaust port..

Info;
Earlier ZX-14 (I think/ someone please confirm my dia's)
Entire head pipe dia is (1 1/2") {38 mm}
Exhaust port dia (x2) is (2 1/8") {approx. 54 mm}
Has Catalytic converter.
   

ZX-14R: (2013 to current)
Head pipe dia at the Flange is (1 1/2") {38 mm}
Head pipe dia from 2" below the Flange, flares to (1 11/16") {43 mm}
Exhaust port dia (x2) is (2 1/8") {54 mm}
No Catalytic converter.

ZG-14 (Concours)
Entire head pipe dia is (1 3/8") {35 mm}
Exhaust port dia (x1) is (2 1/8") {54 mm}
Has Catalytic converter.

Full Area P System {FAPS}
  Head pipe dia at the Flange is (1 1/2") {38 mm}
  Head pipe dia from below the Flange, flares to (1.730" {approx. 1 23/32"}) {44 mm}
Exhaust port dia (x1) is approx. (2 1/4") {57 mm}
No Catalytic converter.

Ride safe, Ted
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
Ted, your #'s are off. BTW you need to measure and stick with MM in this case. the stock zg isn't 1.5", it's 35mm, 1.5" would be 37.5mm (mol) the early zx pipe was 38mm. There's also design differences between the zg and the zx. This doesn't mean your idea won't work, but you're also going to need to upsize the midpipe and muffler, and then of course, there's tuning. Your turn. Steve
 

seagiant

Sport Tourer
Hi,
        Not trying to be negative, and sounds like you know what you want to do, but.... :eek:

What will all this work give you that a simple/good, reflash on your ECU not provide? :-X

I'm not retired yet, work out of town, and have limited time to work/ride on my bike... :(

So maybe I am looking at this wrong? ::)

Just sayin! ;D
 

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face33

Sport Tourer
Bigger pipes make more power at wide open throttle and high rpm. The sacrifice in responsiveness, low and mid range power aren't worth it since the 'Shoodabeen Flash' made its debut.

Now - I like a project and I know you do too - and this isn't a stupid idea or anything - shoot, this club is a support group for those of us who can't leave well enough alone and buy cheap beer but expensive motorcycle stuff! But, for me, ZX14 exhaust is all about the dual pipes 'look'. Add a 240 rear tire and the look is awesome IMO. I'm not after these things bc Betty is perfect but I love it when others personalize their beasts. So, Ted, get 'er done and post pics(!)

Are you leaving the ECU as-is or ? ? ? If I remember correctly you have the Shoodabeen Flash .... right?
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
My excuses;  {OOps} On the ZG Head Pipes, I typed 1 1/2", meant to type 1 3/8". (I'll fix that)
                  I don't have a earlier ZX-14 to measure. {That's why I sed, "I think"}
                          I should have asked someone to confirm, but I think I'm off about .004"?...
                  On the ZG, I measured on the bike/fairing on, and it's hard to be exact.
                  On the ZX-R I measured and rounded a bit for comparison.
                  I measured with dial calipers.  (They measure in inches not MM)
                    {Left it as inches, as I thought folks could relate/compare better in inches}

I know inches and fractions are approx. But I thought inches was close e'nuff for a comparison?.
For instance; 1 3/8" is 1.375" & 35 mm is 1.378".
                    1 1/2" is 1.500" & 38 mm is 1.496".

Ya'll know me. I like to discuss and ask questions... I like to stir thoughts..
I posted because I want input from the COGdom.
I'm not out to argue. I genuinely want your input, even your insults are ok by me.
But, "Let's keep discussing the idea"!!


I want to know;    if others did special tuning with the ZX installation and what was it?
                          did removing the CAT make any difference?
                          was the Zx install worth the effort?
                          has anyone done a dyno run after the mods?
                          etc, etc, etc,,

Lastly; I agree that tuning will be big. That's part of why I'm asking for input.
          I do not want a Full Area P type of power band.
          I don't want the bike to fall flat on it's face at low rpm.
          I do want a power band with good low/mid range power.
          So, will the (decell) Flash I already have, work to do what I want, or will it croak?
              Does anyone know for certain?
                  Thoughts??

Seagiant/Fias: I am retired/poor, was bored, and was wanting a project.
                      Heck, I might not even put them on the bike... But, maybe it will benefit someone else.
                      After all, nothing new happens until someone sez,  "What if"..
                      For instance: "What if" I put foam in the intakes of a C-10.. >evil grin<

Final thought: This might not work for me at all. But, maybe it could help someone else.
                      Maybe {with the right tuning} it could be similar to a Full Area P power band?
                              Does anyone know for certain?
                                  Thoughts??

Ride safe, Ted    {Seeking more thoughts and discussion!!}  >:D
 

jim snyder

Member
Member
Ted, I feel your pain brother. You know what I went through when I built the Con-tario system for my C-10. But it did work in the
end and I have a one of a kind setup now. Heck I still have a huge box full of exhaust pieces, adapters, and spare header pipes left
over from all of that tinkering. My exhaust flange bolts have been taken off and on so many times they have stretch marks. But hey
like you said nothing ever gets done if we don't try. Its like I always say, don't tell me they don't make one of those for my bike cause
I will build one !!! 
 

The Pope

Member
Member
Ted...... (more food for thought or....  :pokestick: or  :017: or :hee20hee20hee:  ) ...... If you want to go to a ZX14 exhaust, just get an aftermarket full length ZX14 system. It will save you a lot on headaches. That's the route that I went.
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
Ted, the reason I would prefer to work in mm is because I have already been working on this, and have compiled measurements from other systems and have some 1st hand knowledge of how they work. For instance the area P starts at 38mm, flares to 44mm, has a sequential tri-y, dumps to a 2.25" mid and straight thru muffler. It dyno's very well and the top end is wicked, but it is was softer down low (I got it back with the Area P flash) . The yosh pipe for the zx is slightly smaller at 42mm, I like that better, and the muzzy, iirc is 43mm.  I also built a 35mm long tube 4 into one that didn't do the top end of the area P but pulled outstandingly well up to 7k, though it's still not optimum. I'm currently working on an exhaust idea, and now that I have anytime use of a working dyno  :nananana: :nananana: There will be more info eeked out in the very near future. BTW, your idea certainly merits experimentation. Steve
 

Amphibsailor

Guest
Guest
Steve,
Pardon this for being slightly off topic, but I often wonder about the perceived softness down low with the full Area P.  I read here on the forum some posts that made it seem as if the full Area P system even with the SISF flash is softer than the an SISF flashed stock system down low.  I really find that hard to believe.  My system runs like a scalded dog and is linear from down low to up high.  If you compare the numbers...what is the result?  :motonoises:
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
Patrick, when looking on the dyno, the WOT #'s show the area p outpowering stock even by 4000 rpm. The soft feeling comes during light / part throttle, though I got most if not all of that back with tuning. the issues is the big exhaust doesn't have any back pressure, and in fact is evacuating the cylinder of some of it's fresh charge during light throttle operation. Such is the nature of "big" when it comes to engine tuning. Cams, overlap, intake, throttle bodies, Ex pipes... big is the bane of low rpm torque. the only "big" that helps low rpm torque is compression, and there's a very finite amount of that to be used before the pistons break. Steve
 

face33

Sport Tourer
If you lined up a hundred Connies with a hundred different exhausts they would all run like scalded dogs between our legs. I get my rocks off on my 75hp bike. I pass Harleys with EASE in the mountains on my 9hp Z125Pro - ! Our motor is gonna make great power unless you stuff a banana in there.

The engine is the engine and the exhaust (unless you wanna exaggerate) made with any common sense will only make small changes. Did anyone put an exhaust on their Connie and now it's slow? No!

I spent on my Muzzy to drop weight and because looking at the stock muffler literally upsets me aethetucsllg. Once or twice a year I repaint my exhaust black bc - well - shiny is for cruisers. Make it your own Ted!

So, whatever you do - you're still gonna have a mega power bike and one with your own exhaust set up too! Go for it.

Now if you really want to see your bike perform better than ever - and for free - just toss my the fob  :rotflmao:
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Yahoo, that's what I wanted. Discussion and info!!


Everyone has good points too. (Even da Pope)  :nananana:
I'll try to reply to each...

Fias, your correct, a header doesn't make power.
But, it allows the engine to make all it can by being more efficient.
More importantly, headers are used to tune the exhaust pulses (so that the motor produces that power in the rpm range you want.)
What I'm hoping to accomplish, is a power band somewhere between the stock and the Full Area P System {ie; FAPS) "without" spending the big bucks for a full system that other (richer/non retired folks/i.e.: "da Pope") are able to buy.

Steve, I see your point about mm. I'll try to do better.
NOTE: You just gave me some of the key info I wanted. (Info on the Full Area P).
            I'll post the  {FAPS} numbers on Reply #3 and get back later on what I think this indicates.

Patrick, Steve, good input on the Full System characteristic's and throttle responce.

Jim, ole Buddy, I think you/me/Steve/others? have always agreed on two things.
              {Err' & mebbe a few more [wine/women/song]}
1*  It's not how much power is made, it's where/how that power is made.
2*  You'll never know if an idea works, if ya don't give it a try.

More replies, MORE REPLIES,,, I want discussion..

Ride safe, Ted
 

seagiant

Sport Tourer
Hi,
        Well....I spent over 2K on some used Ohlin's bits? :eek:

I'm sure there were people here, that thought I was just wasting money? ::)

I don't feel that way of course, and feel I am reaping positive things from that decision! (wasn't easy!) >:D >:D >:D

Good luck with the project and please put up plenty of pics! :great:

I love bike projects, I just don't have the time now!!! :-[
 

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connie_rider

Member
Member
Thanks Seagiant. We're on the same page.

I just added the Full Area System numbers to Reply #3. {Go take a look}
It appears that the ZX-14R system diameters will fall somewhere between a stock ZG system and a Full Area P System.
But, the head pipes are closer to the Full Area P dimensions.....
  {Which is exactly what I was hoping for}  >:D

Ride safe, Ted

PS: Is anyone running a {earlier} ZX-14 exhaust system with a stock, or Steve's Decell Flash?
      Is anyone running a ZG Exhaust with Cats removed and a stock, or Steve's Decell Flash?
      If so,,, we need your input!
 

jim snyder

Member
Member
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
"the issue is the big exhaust doesn't have any back pressure, and in fact is evacuating the cylinder of some of it's fresh charge during light throttle operation. Such is the nature of "big" when it comes to engine tuning. Cams, overlap, intake, throttle bodies, Ex pipes... big is the bane of low rpm torque. the only "big" that helps low rpm torque is compression, and there's a very finite amount of that to be used before the pistons break". Steve

Steve hit the nail on the head. Years ago the common belief was bigger has to be better when it came to exhaust. I proved that theory wrong for the first time back in the 80's while tinkering with my GPZ-750. After trying two exhaust systems with larger head pipes I ended up getting more low end torque and rideability (i.e. the area where we do 95% of our riding) by re-installing the stock head pipes. I ended up with the same scenario when I built the 4 into 1 pipe for my C-10. Larger head pipes killed the bottom end due to just what Steve described, reduced back pressure. When I mated the new exhaust back to the smaller head pipes she came alive on the bottom end. Steve has proven over and over that bigger is not always better. When he first introduced the new improved 2MM kit I was lucky to be his test pilot. The concept went against everything "I thought" was right when it came to airflow. But it worked. I read an article years ago by an old tuner who you may have heard of, Byron Hines (Andrew Hines father) who wrote, "an internal combustion engine is merely an air pump, the more efficiently it pumps air the faster it will go. As mentioned earlier I had an archives of pipe prototypes that didn't work, but it was stubborn determination that yielded the final product that worked. So continue on experimenting Mr. Ted, that is how innovation and new ideas are born. Ok I will go back to my corner now.   
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
I also ran into the problem of bigger isn't better when I built the 4 into 1's for my C-10..
But I was able to increase low end by installing a smaller dia mid pipe/slip on.

Not actually experimenting yet as my welder won't be available until January.
Just looking at "what If's"..

Known; the ZX-R header; first 2 inches of the head pipes is bigger than the ZG, but they are the same size as the Full Area P system.
            the ZX-R header; after those 2" flairs to bigger head pipe runners than the ZG, but they are 1 mm smaller than the Full Area P system.
            the ZX-R header has the same size exhaust port as the ZG, {but there are 2 of them}
            the (2 ea.) ZX-R header exhausts ports are 6 mm smaller than the Full Area P system (which has 1 exhaust port).
              NOTE: An Area P Slip on uses a 2" Mid Pipe.
                        (I think) An Area P full system uses a 2 1/4" Mid Pipe

{Trying to get ya'll thinking},,
So, "What If";
        a guy (1; that prefers better low/mid power) uses 1 of the 2 header exhaust ports and an Area P (or other) slip on?
        a guy (2; that prefers better mid/high power) uses both of the header exhaust ports and 2 Area P (or other) slip on's?
        either 1 or 2,, could be done with no Cat removal and no welding? (ie: Bolt on)
        this works almost as good as a Full Area P System, but costs $600 less? >cheap grin<     

Another important known: If this was done, the stock and existing Flashes are not ideal. (But maybe their close?)

Ride safe, Ted
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
Ted, that';s an interesting scenario you present, zx14r header, and then alter for one or 2 slipons, depending on where you want the power bias. Nice idea! Steve
 

seagiant

Sport Tourer
Hi,
        Ok, tell me this?

Admittedly I'm ignorant!

My understanding is, Steve has made a FLASH, to go with the Full AreaP Setup?

This gives you a quality pro set up with the bigger pipes, and a flash tailored for it?

Why then isn't this Nirvana, here on Planet Earth?

For those with the money and the desire?

I'm waiting for the new "Evo" Flash, to go with my simple stock system and a 18" Delkevic slip on with the baffle removed!
 

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Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
seagiant1 said:
Hi,
        Ok, tell me this?

Admittedly I'm ignorant!

My understanding is, Steve has made a FLASH, to go with the Full AreaP Setup?

This gives you a quality pro set up with the bigger pipes, and a flash tailored for it?

Why then isn't this Nirvana, here on Planet Earth?

For those with the money and the desire?

I'm waiting for the new "Evo" Flash, to go with my simple stock system and a 18" Delkevic slip on with the baffle removed!

Are you in Fl right now? If so, have you noticed the past few days have been perfect! Perfect for tuning, that is... SAE correction factor today... 1.006 ... the real world isn't going to get much better, and I just finished my last run for evo flash fueling about an hour ago  ;)  Steve
 

seagiant

Sport Tourer
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
Are you in Fl right now? If so, have you noticed the past few days have been perfect! Perfect for tuning, that is... SAE correction factor today... 1.006 ... the real world isn't going to get much better, and I just finished my last run for evo flash fueling about an hour ago  ;)  Steve

Hi,
        Ha! Ha!

Sounds GREAT!

No, I'm working (out of State) and I know everyone is busy on the Holidays!

I'm glad now I waited on the "Evo"!

I'll call and check to see what your schedule is!!!

THANKS! :great:


 

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connie_rider

Member
Member
Is there no one out there that installed the ZX pipes on their Connie?

How about Full Area P guys?
C'mon, add to the discussion or kick holes in my idea.

Trying to learn and get others opinions..

Ride safe, Ted
 

Gypsy JR

Member
Member
Sort of off the subject, but I come in contact with a lot of Harley-Davidson bikes with straight pipes. Like at H.O.G. meetings, and at dealerships I visit in my travels.

I never argue with them about the value of a loud bike (there isn't one, its just noise, by the time they hear you its too late).

But I always point out that by reducing exhaust back pressure they are seriously hindering the engine's ability to make torque and horsepower. That only by increasing the flow of the intake ports, changing the cam timing, and altering the A/F ration will the open exhaust produce a positive result.

At which point you'd have a race engine, basically, with all the attendant problems.

They just shut up at that point.
 

gpink

Sport Tourer
connie_rider said:
Is there no one out there that installed the ZX pipes on their Connie?

How about Full Area P guys?
C'mon, add to the discussion or kick holes in my idea.

Trying to learn and get others opinions..

Ride safe, Ted

Ted , I put a zx header and muzzy cf duals on my '08 back in '10. What do you want to know and what is your end goal?
 

cuda

Member
Member
Ted , I put a zx header and muzzy cf duals on my '08 back in '10. What do you want to know and what is your end goal?
[/quote]

To grow hair on the palms of his hands...
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Ahh, victims for me to question!!

JR, I agree with you to a point.
Your correct, an open exhaust can kill the torque.
I intend to keep 1 (Area P) muffler with the same ID as a ZG, to keep back pressure and reduce noise.

In properly designed header the exhaust flow is more efficient {in a specific RPM range}.
If this Header will work in the correct range,,, it will increase the flow of the intake ports, and alter the A/F ration {because of improved scavenging and proper control of the exhaust pulses}.
I'm hoping someone has information of past installs...

When you installed headers on your previous bikes, what was the result?

GPink/Cuda, what was the benefit or downfall of your ZX header installations?
  Did you do anything else to control AF ratio etc?
  What was the size of the Mid pipes?
  Did you remove a Catalytic Converter?
  Did you remove the flies?

End Goal. is EZ,,
  I want Power!! Lots and lots of POWER!!    Arr, arr, arr,,,,,,,,,  >:D
    But I want it to be controllable, and have good low/mid torque...
      ie: better than stock and a Full Area P.. But cheap!!
    And, I want to keep the idea's coming.
            Bekuz,,, I just like to discuss things...

Cuda, I already have hair on the palms of my hands.
            I want to grow some on top of my err slightly balding head..  :rotflmao:

Ride safe, Ted
 

gpink

Sport Tourer
Ted, 2007 zx14 headers (no cats) PC5 w/Autotune. Secondaries removed. Throttle cables adjusted and Throttle tamer installed. No downside. Extremely smooth. Never dyno'ed. At the time this was the only means to an end and I really like the dual setup. I'll see about OD pipe measurements this weekend.
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Good info. Yes, please confirm the dimensions I have.
Extremely smooth and more powerful?
Did you happen to ride it without autotune and flies removed?

NOTE: Leaving in a few minutes to go hunting.
          Will be back next week.

Ride safe, Ted
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Back from my hunt.
See no replies.

I was selected to test Steve's new Flash, so this project is on hold for a time.

All I have is an idea and a ZX-14R header. 
Would still like to hear from folks that have installed ZX-14 or Zx-14R headers.

Is this a waste of time?

Ride safe, Ted
 

Throttle 8

Member
Member
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
Patrick, when looking on the dyno, the WOT #'s show the area p outpowering stock even by 4000 rpm. The soft feeling comes during light / part throttle, though I got most if not all of that back with tuning. the issues is the big exhaust doesn't have any back pressure, and in fact is evacuating the cylinder of some of it's fresh charge during light throttle operation. Such is the nature of "big" when it comes to engine tuning. Cams, overlap, intake, throttle bodies, Ex pipes... big is the bane of low rpm torque. the only "big" that helps low rpm torque is compression, and there's a very finite amount of that to be used before the pistons break. Steve


I see a SISF full Area P system flash with an EXUP churning in your head!!! If you build it--they will come!! :motonoises:
 

cuda

Member
Member
Like I said before I used a 08 header , smaller diameter pipe that the newer 14r

Yes I could feel more power but how much ... who knows because it has never made it to a Dyno!

I rather have low end torque than 8 to 10,000 rpm hp. where the bigger pipes  of the 14r will shine , while the lower #s should be mine :)

If Steve wants to dyno my bike Great , You get that 14r remove the cats and then we'll know :beerchug:
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Throttle 8:
I'm too poor for a full Area p system. (But how did you know I looked at Exup?)  :??:
I suspect,, great minds think alike!!

Cuda, Dueling Headers at Steve's?
  Nice plan! (We'll have to wait and see if he decides to do a comparo test someday).

NOTE: Being one of the lucky Beta testers, Tomorrow,,, I'm sending my ECU to Steve so he can install his new Evolution Flash.
          Which means; there won't be any changes to my exhaust system until I report on it. (And ride it awhile, so others can see it)

Until then, lets keep the talks going.
I enjoy comparing idea's...

Ride safe, Ted
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Thanks Egodriver, I already bought one.
But,, It's setting in my garage for now, {as I just added Steve's new flash and want to ride with it for a time before doing changes}.

If someone else is interested in trying this,,, can they contact you?

PS: Which year ZX-14R do you have?
      Just realized, you sed Complete System. Do you have the stock mufflers?

Ride safe, Ted
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Throttle 8 said:
I see a SISF full Area P system flash with an EXUP churning in your head!!! If you build it--they will come!! :motonoises:

Throttle 8

Throttle 8, your an evil man. >:D
Ever since you mentioned this, I've been thinking about it.
Instead of using 1 muffler (right side), I'm considering a EXUP that would keep a left muffler closed until I open the throttle to 75+% throttle.    Beginning to think I know a way to do it.

I knows it's wild and crazy, and might not do a thing.
But it's fun to see if I can figure out a way to make it operate.

Any other Mad inventors out there?
Idea's??

Ride safe, Ted

PS: I currently have Steve's Evo Flash and I love it!
      I don't plan to install the ZX header for some time as I'm going to ride with the EVO for awhile..
 
      Until I do the install, I playing with idea's on how to accomplish this..
      Hoping someone has an idea..
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Good find Pope!
  RPM controlled vs throttle positon controlled would definitely be a better way to go!

At this stage, I'm primarily trying to work out a way to make it operate.
    (so I can see if the valve opening, actually effects anything).
    Hopes being that 1 muffler will maintain ZG low/mid torque, and 2 mufflers ZX (like) top end power.

Initial thought being a (cheap) micro switch on the throttle linkage.
  (With electric solenoid or EXUP motor to move a butterfly valve).

If it shows promise, I'll use something like your find to more accurately control things..

Currently; I've been trying to find a butterfly valve to fit the 2" mid pipe?
                I think a EXUP Valve from a 2014 V Strom might be what I need.
                Can't find one. (yet)

Ride safe, Ted



 

deltonian

Bicycle
Forum Subscriber
Guest
Ok, so, with all this engineered thought in process what is the viability to swap the c14 engine for a ZX14 engine?  May be a silly ? and expensive but have wondered if its even possible. Sorry if this is way off topic but I had to ask.. :motonoises:
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Don't know the answer, but to start with, a person would have to put the ZX motor (crank/rods/pistons/cylinders/head/cams/exhaust/throttle bodies/etc) on a ZG Tranny...

Ride safe, Ted
 

jim snyder

Member
Member
connie_rider said:
Don't know the answer, but to start with, a person would have to put the ZX motor (crank/rods/pistons/cylinders/head/cams/exhaust/throttle bodies/etc) on a ZG Tranny...

Ride safe, Ted

If momma Kaw does things like she always has the shaft drive primary drive should be swappable with the chain drive assembly housing. 
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
connie_rider said:
Good find Pope!
  RPM controlled vs throttle positon controlled would definitely be a better way to go!

  I disagree. And this is with all the experience I have on this bikes tuning. Think about it. Steve
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Thinking about it..  :smiley_confused1:

What-iff we: Use both in series? 
  Use a micro switch on the throttle linkage {to initiate circuit}.
  Use a RPM switch in the circuit {to postpone Valve opening until "X" RPM is passed}.

For discussion, lets use WOT as Initiate value, and 7000 RPM as "X" RPM.


Here's our Rider;  :motonoises:

*Cruising: {Need smooth continuous torque}
        Rider uses moderate throttle, never opening to WOT or high RPM's.
        Valve will remain closed...

* Accell out of a curve: {Need smooth torque}
        Rider gives the throttle a twist but not WOT.
        Valve will remain closed, regardless of RPM...

* High gear Roll On: {Need torque to move the bike, Reduced back pressure as RPM increases}
        Rider gives the throttle a full {WOT} twist but initial RPM's are low.         
        Circuit will initiate but valve will remain closed, until 7000 RPM is reached...

*Banzai Blast thru the gears: {Need initial torque to move the bike, and maintain Reduced back pressure as RPM will remain high}
        Rider gives the throttle a full twist in a low gear and RPM's rise quickly!
          Circuit will be initiate at WOT and valve will open almost immediately, as 7000 RPM will come quickly!!
      "as he grabs each gear" "Our Hero" chops the throttle, shifts, and returns to WOT.
          Valve will try to close as throttle drops below WOT, and then re-open at WOT and 7000 RPM... {Could cause valve flutter}.
            {If I can figure out how to wire it,,, the exhaust valve would be Motor controlled, which move's semi-slowly,
                  because of the slow movement, the valve should cycle a few degrees, not flutter}

Thoughts?

Ride safe, Ted
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
PS: Before any of this is built, we would need to prove that there is a difference in power between the use of 1 and 2 mufflers on a ZX-14 exhaust system.

ie;  Dyno pull with 2 mufflers installed.
      Dyno pull with 1 Muffler blocked off.

If there is a difference,,,, then the idea's on how to built it,,,, will become important.

Fer now; we're just talking "What-Iff's" and trying to find inexpensive {"Cheap"} ways to do it..


Another PS: My (cheap $11.00) EXUP Motor and cables just arrived in the Mail... yahoooooooooo  :great:
                  I'll use it to figure out how to use the 5 wires to operate the motor.  Idea's??

                  On EXUP systems, the motor is connected to the Exhaust valve by 2 cables.
                  I now need to find a 2" exhaust valve inside of a section of tubing. (Photo below)
                      A similar valve is in a 2014 V-Strom {DL-1000} or a Yamaha WR250R exhaust pipe.
                        Haven't found one to buy yet {cheap}..  Suggestions??

Ride safe, Ted

This is EXUP theory of operation and "photo" of what I need.
http://www.skutr.net/exhaust-valves-and-servo-motors-explained/

Yamaha WR250R EXUP valve operating..
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yfp-t&p=exup+valve+operation#id=2&vid=f6fbaff7837d7564325d2b993ab654a4&action=view

 

mattchewn

Member
Member
Ted,
You asked, here is what I am thinking. To me it looks like a lot of work for less power than can easily be had by an Area P. I think the way to go would be to start with a larger diameter, (single or duals), system and then try flow control for more low and midrange gains.
Let me clarify a bit. 
The ZX has a decent and in some versions, slightly larger primary tube header a 2 inch pipe setup feeding 2 2 inch mid pipes and mufflers right?  Blocking one of those off might get you a little bit on the bottom, a BIG might. Since Kawasaki probably sized the exhaust properly to work with the duals it seems like building a ladder to drill for oil! I would think that you would want to start with a larger diameter pipe and then throttle the gasses back using a valve setup to keep the bottom and expand the mid and the top. I know it will in all likelihood work a little differently in concert with VVT and a "detuned" motor but the basics don't change from motor to motor. Also, There would definitely have to be a redesigned split section so as to not to adversely affect exhaust flow since you can't just "block off" one of the duals without causing some flow changes that are most likely quite undesirable.
Maybe I'm way off here?
Matt
 
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