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Anybody else doing Roll-On (modification) comparisons?

khager01

Moped
Forum Subscriber
So far the Hiflo does not work with the 2021, according to the Amazon site search... :^ (

View attachment 29223
May be an image of 4 people


The one on the left is Hi-Flo, and the one on the right OEM. Notice how much more restrictive the screen is on the Hi-Flo. Also while the foam weatherstripping around the perimeter was the same thickness on both new, the OEM kept its original thickness better. Is it enough to hurt performance? I don't know? Just my observations
 
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connie_rider

Member
Member
That's a good observation.
I also agree about the holes on the support metal. Seem too small, but it a previous post, someone calculated the area and said that the were not a issue.
If they are, I'll remove mine before the next Roll-on.. <evil grin>

C'mon folks. if your not doing Roll-on's (against another Connie), how are you "comparing" your bikes?

Ride safe, Ted
 
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2andblue

Member
Member
C'mon folks. if your not doing Roll'on's, how are you comparing your bikes?

Ride safe, Ted
I have joked about this a couple times but really the only comparisons we have done to our upgraded machine are below
  1. Magic trick (low mileage disappearance) of the rear tire
  2. Consciousness needed to prevent power wheelies through 2nd gear (although balanced smooth and fun - wasted energy)
    • Anyone who says a shaft bike can't wheelie (without a clutch-up)... you are wrong
  3. Acceleration force at which my bottom is pushed against up-step of seat
  4. Length of road needed to accelerate to an unsaid speed
  5. Increased gas mileage when taking it easy
    • We have seen fleeting glimpses of 51 - 53 AVG MPG doesn't last long, too much road to eat up
We ride 2-up (except for very RARE occasions), for a middle aged couple we probably have some of the wildest times enjoying this machine.
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Thanx 2andblue. You answered my question and helped me make my point. (y)
Most are doing the same as you, plus their doing drag races or a ride thru the twisties.
NONE are a good comparison of mod's.
1); Most don't compare difference, (you judge effect by feel, or they involve rider skill/shifting/twisty etc.
2); Drag or twist; Being faster (thru skill) does not equally compare the difference in torque/power of the bike.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,The gear that you are in, or differing shift points, does not equally compare the difference in torque/power of the bike.

A Roll on "is" a comparison between 2 bikes, and rider skill/etc do not affect the results.

NOTE: I'm not saying that the other methods aren't indicators that you made an improvement, and their fun as heck.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'm saying their not a effective way to evaluate the effect of a modification.

Ride safe, Ted

PS: I've done 2-up comparisons too. Wife was mad as heck. So, I did it again. 😜
 

2andblue

Member
Member
Thanx 2andblue. You answered my question and helped me make my point. (y)

NOTE: I'm not saying that the other methods aren't indicators that you made an improvement, and their fun as heck. I'm saying their not a effective way to evaluate the effect of a modification.
Totally agreed, I cannot measure how much the performance difference made from previous as I don’t have a ‘ghost’ machine beside, or errrr behind me 😜.

There are some rather delicate, and surprisingly cost effective, instruments you can place on car that read from different telemetry, measure g-forces and speed then make calcs on performance. Could possibly work on MC too.

Supposedly quite repeatable - possibly a tool to play with and not spendy.
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
I recently learned of a free app that you can load on your phone.
Measures/records measure g-forces, lean angle, braking, accelerating, speed, and more.
If you had it on 2 bikes, I'm guessing that after a ride you could put the tracks on a computer, study the tracks, and compare the bikes to see if there is any difference.
Or, you can do a roll-on and know...

Ride safe, Ted
 

khager01

Moped
Forum Subscriber
I wish I had another C14 owner nearby I could do roll on's with. It would especially be useful after you made some performance mods, to do it again against the same bike.
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
Back in 2015, while I was first building my flash and didn't have my own dyno, I used roll-on comparisons frequently. It just so happened that COG member Zarticus weighed about the same as me and our bike must have been very close in power, because on stock roll ons we would run together. Then as the flash was developed, I would outrun him by an ever increasing margin. Frustrating for Gary, but he knew I'd make it up to him in the end, and I did. Roll ons proved themselves in the real world. You have to establish a baseline, and not change anything on the control bike or any results are void.
All the answers don't come from a dyno graph.
Steve
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
I wish I had another C14 owner nearby I could do roll on's with. It would especially be useful after you made some performance mods, to do it again against the same bike.
Agreed....
Best to re-run with same the bike,
(if not the same bike) know "all" the different mods that are on each bike,
(Not as good, but comparable if all differences and mods are considered)
Rider weights should also be considered.

Explanation;
Recently I compared my bike with another. "Our intention was to compare 2 Flashes".
I had Area P Slip-On, he had a TBR Slip-On.
I had Flash X. He had Flash Y.
My bike pulled his easily / repeatedly.
,,,,, That seems to indicate that my Flash {X} was faster than his {Y}.
But, we assumed the 2 Flashes would be pretty similar? {There was a big difference}
So we decided to figure out the difference.

We realized that the difference was probably;
My bike has Headers installed and his doesn't.
,,, {Plus my bike is [the superior] 2014 RED}. <grin>
Bottom line; You have to look at the total picture. Our test was not an equal comparison.
Our Roll-on's indicated only that; my bike (with it's mods) was faster, "not" Flash X was better than Flash Y.

Ride safe, Ted
 
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texas.devops902

Eager Upshifter in SW Houston
Member
May be a dumb question, but is everyone turning off their traction control when making roll-ons or leaving it activated? Haven't seen anyone talk about how deactivating traction control affects the torque delivery. Only reason it came up is it hit me that pulling wheelies would probably be tough to accomplish with it active.

Not that I'm considering pulling wheelies anytime soon, but some younger bikers were sharing their exploits and it got me thinking about how hard it would be for my 650+lb buxom brunette to expose her nethers from one wheel. It also got me thinking about suspension settings too, but now I'm maybe getting too techie?

How much impact does a tuned suspension have on getting the torque to the tarmac vs a factory setup?

Inquiring minds... yada yada yada. LOL :^ )
 
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2andblue

Member
Member
Turn KTRC off for longer wheelies or for high acceleration otherwise you can do shorter wheelies such as ‘skipping wheelie’ e.g. exiting a corner with high throttle) or at high at speed without setting off the KTRC.

I have though activated KTRC a couple times but it takes a lot if you are already moving. I don’t get into the dumping the clutch deal I would expect that would activate KTRC immediately.
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Roll-on Test report;
At the National, David and I got a chance to compare our bikes/systems.
"Our intention was to compare 2 header Systems".
** I have a 2006 ZX-14 Header with 2 Area P Slip-On's.
** He has a Full Area P Header System with the a single/larger Area P Slip-On.

Per my other comparisons; we started our comparison at 2000 RPM's in 3rd gear..
From 2000 RPM's, we expected my bike to initially pull ahead (because of the smaller tube size) and his to pass me at approx. 5000 RPM's (because of the/larger/better designed system).
But it didn't happen as we expected.
Yikes!

ie; My bike initially pulled ahead (by approx. 2 bike lengths) and then his bike matched my acceleration, but did gain on me.
{2000-8000 RPM Range}

We pondered this and decided to try another run from 4500 RPM's in 3rd gear.

From 4500 RPM's, we expected his bike to immediately pull ahead (because of the/larger/better designed system) and continue to pull away from me.
But {AGAIN} it didn't happen as we expected.
1624144614909.png
x2

ie; After an instant, my bike pulled ahead by about 1/2 Length, and then his bike matched my acceleration, but did gain on me.
{4500 - 10,000 RPM Range}

,,,,, This comparison seems to indicate that my ZX-14 Header System was faster than his Full Area P Header System.
1624144685495.png

But {as I sed} the results were NOT what we expected.
1624145159304.png


So we decided to list the variables and try to figure out why we got the results we did.
Variables;
My bike is low miles (25,000, and his is high miles 150,000+)
I have Steve's Mountain Runner Premium Flash and he has Ivan's Area P System Flash.
My bike is [the superior] 2014 RED, and his is Silverdammit}. <sly grin>

Bottom line; If you look at the total picture. Our test was not exactly an equal comparison.
Our Roll-on's indicated only that; my bike (with it's mods) was faster, than his bike (with it's mods).
1624145398732.png


But, the results sure made me happy! <evil grin>

Your thoughts on our comparison??

Ride safe, Ted

PS: Is anybody else doing comparison Roll-on's??
 

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laker9142

Member
Member
Ted's account is accurate. I was disappointed but not devastated. A half a bike link or even a full bike length at 120 in 3rd doesn't effect the twisties much. But bragging rights go to Ted, for now. And that 2014 red is sharp and somewhat uncommon I think. And that home made header is impressive. We'll do some more 'testing' at the FFF.
 

2andblue

Member
Member
Ted my wife and I celebrate each thousand miles as another bike year - e.g. our 2017 ‘Blue’ recently turned 37 Yrs Old (37,000 miles)

Now that we have the age naming nomenclature understood - from what I read above it seems you are telling me that a 150 yr old bike did not let you drive away :unsure:

How about you pick on a bike a little closer your own age - see you at National next year, or sooner…

Now that I have that out of my system 😊.. Thanks for sharing the comparison, certainly very interesting. Glad to hear of the fun and boys just being boys..
 

texas.devops902

Eager Upshifter in SW Houston
Member
Ted my wife and I celebrate each thousand miles as another bike year - e.g. our 2017 ‘Blue’ recently turned 37 Yrs Old (37,000 miles)

Now that we have the age naming nomenclature understood - from what I read above it seems you are telling me that a 150 yr old bike did not let you drive away :unsure:

How about you pick on a bike a little closer your own age - see you at National next year, or sooner…

Now that I have that out of my system 😊.. Thanks for sharing the comparison, certainly very interesting. Glad to hear of the fun and boys just being boys..

THAT is hilarious! 150yo bike! Hahahahahah... almost choked on dinner here. :^ )
 

Just Cliff

Member
Member
Ted's account is accurate. I was disappointed but not devastated. A half a bike link or even a full bike length at 120 in 3rd doesn't effect the twisties much. But bragging rights go to Ted, for now. And that 2014 red is sharp and somewhat uncommon I think. And that home made header is impressive. We'll do some more 'testing' at the FFF.

I can see Ted's head swelling from here. He's gonna have to ride helmetless because they don't come in XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXL! :LOL::ROFLMAO:
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Ted's account is accurate. I was disappointed but not devastated. etc etc etc
Uh ohh. Sounds like a new bike a'commin.
1624198641056.png

Ted my wife and I celebrate each thousand miles as another bike year - e.g. our 2017 ‘Blue’ recently turned 37 Yrs Old (37,000 miles) etc etc etc
Using your numbers; I already did a roll on with my 25 year old vs a 5 year old..
Same result.
1624198648858.png

No, I'm not a pede-file...
THAT is hilarious! 150yo bike! Hahahahahah... almost choked on dinner here. :^ )
Don't laugh. Your next.
1624198657579.png

i wish i could have made it. ti compare bw with it. had to work. next year. great job guys
You shoulda been there. See ya in Arkansas.
1624198664286.png

He's gonna have to ride helmetless because they don't come in XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXL! :ROFLMAO::LOL:
I'm riding helmetless already.
{I just paint my head to confuse "the unworthy"}.
Ptttttttttttttttt,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

All jokes aside; My intention for this discussion was not "Braggin' Rights".
Even though it's fun to brag,
1624198477638.png
the discussion was intended as a way to "do bike comparisons and report them".

What I'm seeing, is;
*{much like Dyno Runs} there is always a variable in the comparison.

I'm also seeing;
** Every test, leads to more $$ for performance farkles, and a REMATCH!.
***No one else is reporting that they do this?

Ride safe, Ted
 
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laker9142

Member
Member
More observations and speculations regarding roll on's I've done with Ted and Andy;
> Teds advantage over me was at the instant of cracking the throttle open, otherwise pretty much even. It was much more pronounced at 2000 rpm, but I never run below 3500 during spirited riding. So I'm not sure how relevant/important that really is (to me). Other than to highlight the small tube headers advantage in getting the airflow started.
> Andy's bike has a full Area P with a PC5 autotune. We did very similar roll on's last fall at the Spider. Way back when I had a PC5 with Fuelmoto map we were dead nuts even. We' been riding together since 2010 and his bike hasn't changed since 2011. I got flashed in 2015?
> So last fall, we hit the throttle at 3500, and stayed close to even with him slightly pulling me by a 1/4 bike length, up to 6500rpm. Then at 6500 it was like he pushed a boost button and would quickly walk away by 2 bike lengths. up to the same 120 in 3rd as me and Ted.
> I remember that same hit at 6500 on mine back when I had the PC5.
> So the speculation part is; I believe Ted would pull Andy same as he did me, But Andy would come storming back just like the we thought my bike would do.
> So for the next testing session with either one of these bikes, I'm going to remove the flies, again for the third time. It might help the 6500 hit, maybe.
 

Just Cliff

Member
Member
I have never done one Ted, I'll do one with ya when you're up here in Oct.

My mods are few, only a slip on & a old Beta test version of a outdated Evo flash. Not to mention the bike is getting up there in miles, quite a few more than David's. It'll be interesting to see how big the difference is.

It'll be the battle of many mods & few miles, verses few mods & many miles. 😳
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Thanx Laker. That's more info.
Yes Cliff. We'll do a roll-on and get more info.
Kzz; (at this stage) we really don't have enough Data to positively know anything.
We have too few tests to use as comparisons and we're finding that the variable's are "Many".
That's why I keep asking for more runs by other bikes.

** I'm unsure if any brand of Slip-on is any better than another, but a Slip-on does seem to be better than a bike with a stock muffler.

From memory, here are the Roll-on's that I've done.
NOTE: Robert (#4) and I did multiple runs with our bike's as we both made changes.

Before I did all my mods {I had a Area P slip-on only};
#1 ,,,, I did a Roll-on against a stock mufflered bike and pulled away from him.
#2 ,,,, I did a Roll-on against a bike that had a Brothers slip-on and pulled away from him.
#3 ,,,, I did a Roll-on against a Bike that had a ?? slip-on and Steve's EVO Flash and he pulled away.
#4 ,,,, I did a Roll-on against a Bike that had a 2 Brothers slip-on and Steve's EVO Flash and he pulled away.
I next added Steve's EVO Flash.
#4 again; I did a Roll-on against same Bike that had a 2 Brothers slip-on and Steve's EVO Flash and we were pretty even.
I next added Steve's Mountain Runner Flash.
#4 again; I did a Roll-on against same Bike that had a 2 Brothers slip-on and Steve's EVO Flash and I pulled away.
I next added a ZX-14 header and 2 Area P mufflers.
#4 again; I did a Roll-on against same Bike that had a 2 Brothers slip-on and (now) Steve's Mountain Runner Flash and I pulled away.
#5,,,, I did a Roll-on against a Bike that had a Yoshimira Full Exhaust and Steve's Area P Flash and he dusted me.
#6,,,, I did a Roll-on against a stock Bike and I dusted him.
I next added Steve's Mountain Runner Premium Flash.
#4 again; I did a Roll-on with same Bike that had a 2 Brothers slip-on and (now) Steve's Mountain Runner Premium Flash and I pulled away.
#7,,,, I did a Roll-on against a stock Bike and I dusted him.
#8,,,, I did a Roll-on against a Bike that had a 2 Brothers slip-on and Ivan's Flash and I pulled away.
#9,,,, I did a Roll-on against a Bike that had a Area P Full Exhaust and Ivan's Area P Flash and pulled only a bit (only in the low RPM's).

Currently; #4 won't talk to me about another test, I'm looking for #5 for a re-test, #6 added a Slip-on and Steve's Mountain Runner flash (and is looking for me), #7 bought a new BMW (and is looking for me), OOps; #8 #9 is removing Flies (and will be looking for me)

Ride safe, Ted

PS: To those that are looking for me, I'm here, but we need others to do runs and report..
I know it doesn't sound like it, but the idea of this discussion is not Braggin' Rights.
It's posted to determine what modifications work.
 
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texas.devops902

Eager Upshifter in SW Houston
Member
Thanx Laker. That's more info.
Yes Cliff. We'll do a roll-on and get more info.
Kzz; (at this stage) we really don't have enough Data to positively know anything.
We have too few tests to use as comparisons and we're finding that the variable's are "Many".
That's why I keep asking for more runs by other bikes.

** I'm unsure if any brand of Slip-on is any better than another, but a Slip-on does seem to be better than a bike with a stock muffler.

From memory, here are the Roll-on's that I've done.
NOTE: Robert (#4) and I did multiple runs with our bike's as we both made changes.

Before I did all my mods {I had a Area P slip-on only};
#1 ,,,, I did a Roll-on against a stock mufflered bike and pulled away from him.
#2 ,,,, I did a Roll-on against a bike that had a Brothers slip-on and pulled away from him.
#3 ,,,, I did a Roll-on against a Bike that had a ?? slip-on and Steve's EVO Flash and he pulled away.
#4 ,,,, I did a Roll-on against a Bike that had a 2 Brothers slip-on and Steve's EVO Flash and he pulled away.
I next added Steve's EVO Flash.
#4 again; I did a Roll-on against same Bike that had a 2 Brothers slip-on and Steve's EVO Flash and we were pretty even.
I next added Steve's Mountain Runner Flash.
#4 again; I did a Roll-on against same Bike that had a 2 Brothers slip-on and Steve's EVO Flash and I pulled away.
I next added a ZX-14 header and 2 Area P mufflers.
#4 again; I did a Roll-on against same Bike that had a 2 Brothers slip-on and (now) Steve's Mountain Runner Flash and I pulled away.
#5,,,, I did a Roll-on against a Bike that had a Yoshimira Full Exhaust and Steve's Area P Flash and he dusted me.
#6,,,, I did a Roll-on against a stock Bike and dusted him.
I next added Steve's Mountain Runner Premium Flash.
#4 again; I did a Roll-on with same Bike that had a 2 Brothers slip-on and (now) Steve's Mountain Runner Premium Flash and I pulled away.
#7,,,, I did a Roll-on against a stock Bike and dusted him.
#8,,,, I did a Roll-on against a Bike that had a 2 Brothers slip-on and Ivan's Flash and pulled away.
#9,,,, I did a Roll-on against a Bike that had a Area P Full Exhaust and Ivan's Area P Flash and pulled only a bit.

Currently; #4 won't talk to me about another test, I'm looking for #5 for a re-test, #6 added a Slip-on and Steve's Mountain Runner flash (and is looking for me), #7 bought a new BMW (and is looking for me), #8 is removing Flies (and will be looking for me)

Ride safe, Ted

PS: To those that are looking for me, I'm here, but we need others to do runs and report..
I know it doesn't sound like it, but the idea of this discussion is not Braggin' Rights.
It's posted to determine what modifications work.

Yep, as #6 I can attest to having been dusted on my shiny new bone-stock bike. I didn't even have the grip puppies on yet at the time. I now have the MRP and BW can installed. Aside from a few other new farkles and a T021 Battlax rear tire replaced 2,650 miles ago it's still unimproved.

This is good data Ted. I'm starting to get even more interested now as I see how the bikes stack up. I've got one of your items to return, so one day this week (between rain showers?) let's see about meeting somewhere that Smokie the Bear won't come racing up behind us? Nice long stretch of pavement without traffic and potholes should tell us more about how these two setups compare. :^ ) AB
 

kzz1king

Member
Member
Thanks I think. Sounds like I need a exhaust system.
All I have to do roll ons with are HDs in various stages. C14 sightings are rare here.
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
Thanks I think. Sounds like I need a exhaust system.
All I have to do roll ons with are HDs in various stages. C14 sightings are rare here.
HD's in various stages... I have a friend whose son has harley's baddest bike, I think it's called a CVO with a 117" engine? This kid (early 30's) has the FAST bug bad. He sent the bike to what is considered the best HD shop in Canada, they changed pistons, cams, headwork, exhaust, something about the illegal (in the states) sreaming eagle ECU tune.. His Dad rides an FJR and told me to be careful, that HD is FAST! So we got together for some roll ons. My bike, a 2012 with area p slipon and somebody must have apparently tuned it while I was sleeping.
We did roll on's in 1st, second and 3rd gear. I let him pick what gear we were in and he could start the runs at whatever rpm he wanted.
So let's put it this way, it was an absolute beatdown. When it was all over, My friend's son told me next time he's going to have a supercharger on his bike. I believe him.
So much for racing HD's.
Steve
 

texas.devops902

Eager Upshifter in SW Houston
Member
HD's in various stages... I have a friend whose son has harley's baddest bike, I think it's called a CVO with a 117" engine? This kid (early 30's) has the FAST bug bad. He sent the bike to what is considered the best HD shop in Canada, they changed pistons, cams, headwork, exhaust, something about the illegal (in the states) sreaming eagle ECU tune.. His Dad rides an FJR and told me to be careful, that HD is FAST! So we got together for some roll ons. My bike, a 2012 with area p slipon and somebody must have apparently tuned it while I was sleeping.
We did roll on's in 1st, second and 3rd gear. I let him pick what gear we were in and he could start the runs at whatever rpm he wanted.
So let's put it this way, it was an absolute beatdown. When it was all over, My friend's son told me next time he's going to have a supercharger on his bike. I believe him.
So much for racing HD's.
Steve

Went out for a quick ride the other day with a buddy who has an FZ1 with full exhaust and an Ivan’s tune. Not sure what else was done, and he didn’t either because he bought it used.

We weren’t really racing but on a couple back roads we lined up when turning and took off full throttle from 2nd gear. He didn’t pull away on me, but he for sure had me winding this up to 10k RPM so I wouldn’t fall behind. Of course his bike weighs half what our Connies weigh, but he has .352 liters less so I was a bit surprised by how fast he was. And his bike is a 2004 model year.

Another one of my amigos has a Road King 114 and up to about 60mph he can hang but then quickly falls behind. Might have something to do with the gearing, but I suspect the V-twin nature severely limits their top end.

I’ve got Steve’s MRP and a BW slip on which should give me a bit more legs, but I’ve got no illusions about being the fastest beast on the street. I’ve been passed on the highway by ZX10’s and Busas like I was in the short bus lane, and I was casually cruising at 120. LOL
 

laker9142

Member
Member
#8 is removing Flies (and will be looking for me)
Come on man, I'm #9
Might have something to do with the gearing, but I suspect the V-twin nature severely limits their top end.
Not entirely true. I've got a Ktm 1290 vee twin. Same geometry vee and same crank configuration as a Harley. I did a roll on with Zg/Zn Kim in Kentucky the week prior to the national. It was not controlled in any way. After the first attempt by me to get his attention, he figured it out. So we tried again, and the ktm left him sitting. Found out later he was in 3rd at 7000rpm. I don't even know what gear I was in. Point is, the ktm is a hoot! I also don't know his mods, if any. The Harleys are limited by their inability to breath and massive rotating/reciprocating weight.
#2 ,,,, I did a Roll-on against a bike that had a Brothers slip-on and pulled away from him.
Ted made a comment after our test. I think he was trying to make me feel better but the statement was true. He said if you take 3 bikes off the assembly line at the same time, one will be the fastest. One will be the slowest. I think Ted got a good one.
 

texas.devops902

Eager Upshifter in SW Houston
Member
Come on man, I'm #9

Not entirely true. I've got a Ktm 1290 vee twin. Same geometry vee and same crank configuration as a Harley. I did a roll on with Zg/Zn Kim in Kentucky the week prior to the national. It was not controlled in any way. After the first attempt by me to get his attention, he figured it out. So we tried again, and the ktm left him sitting. Found out later he was in 3rd at 7000rpm. I don't even know what gear I was in. Point is, the ktm is a hoot! I also don't know his mods, if any. The Harleys are limited by their inability to breath and massive rotating/reciprocating weight.

Ted made a comment after our test. I think he was trying to make me feel better but the statement was true. He said if you take 3 bikes off the assembly line at the same time, one will be the fastest. One will be the slowest. I think Ted got a good one.

I must’ve gotten the one in the middle. LOL
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Clearly, I did get a good one, and I agree that it has an advantage...
ie; I keep telling ya'll that 2014 RED is the fastest Color..

Another Roll-on report, kinda..
Background info;
Before the National I did a 3rd gear Roll on with my son on his FJR.
NOTE: He had his wife on the back and I beat him handily.
So, she got on my bike for another test.
We again beat him handily.
,,,,,,But this time, his wife was on my bike. {laughing and waving at him}. 😁

When #9 and I did our Roll-on's, Roger was behind us on his FJR.
He reported that he kept up with us.
This was a surprise to me {after my son's tests} so I asked him about it.
Roger sed that the difference was; he had Ivan's FJR Flash in his bike.

Ride safe, Ted
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
When #9 and I did our Roll-on's, Roger was behind us on his FJR.
He reported that he kept up with us.
This was a surprise to me {after my son's tests} so I asked him about it.
Roger sed that the difference was; he had Ivan's FJR Flash in his bike.

Ride safe, Ted

AND he was a gear lower, because FJR's can't run with a Concours. BTDT many times.
Steve
 

2andblue

Member
Member
So, she got on my bike for another test.
We again beat him handily.
,,,,,,But this time, his wife was on my bike. {laughing and waving at him}. 😁
Cruel, kinda funny but cruel.

Ted you and sporty red are ruthless - keep it up!!!

Ted are you doing anything other than roll-on (WOT) with your right wrist. No clutching? Tires I would also look there as a variable, seems small but could be a variable / factor, diameter, weight.
 

chrismpero

Member
Member
Lots of good stuff here..

Forgive me if it's been asked, but how do you start at the same time? Is there a countdown of sorts? One person counts down with they're left hand or are you communicating with coms?
 

laker9142

Member
Member
Rodger is spinning a tall tail. 2 spiders ago I learned he had Ivan's flash. So we agreed to a test. After the test I asked him what happened, some problem? Did you forget to go? No problem, just a 25 year old engine design. Thats back when a good man with a porting tool could make a living.
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
So, I've been duped by Roger?? o_O Arghhh, the shame, the shame! :eek:

I was not being cruel. I was trying to make the test fair by having her get on my bike. {I expected him to pull away}
She (on the other hand) WAS being cruel! hee hee

Your correct. Many things can be a variable and can effect the test. (Always evaluate the results to see what variables are present)
** While evaluating earlier runs with Robert (bike #2) we thought that differing tire sizes may have made a difference.
But realized that the larger 55 series tire (which should have been a disadvantage) was accelerating the fastest. (??)
NOTE: We seldom go to 10k. Normally the fastest accell shows itself by 6-8K.

No, no clutch work at all.
The purpose of the Roll-on procedure is to make it entirely Bike X vs Bike Y.
So, we only twist the throttle.

Start procedure is EZ.
.. Both riders shift into 3rd gear.
.. #1 person watches his Tach and hold's his bike at 2,000 RPM (or another "agreed on" RPM)
.. The other matches him and nods when both bikes are even/ready
.. #1 does a count with left hand movement. ( 1, 2, "3" )
.. Both riders grab a handful of throttle and go on
"3"
NOTE: When I'm the #1 (counter person) I normally wait a half of instant after "3" {to be sure that #2 has time for an even response}
{Occasionally 1 bike will have an initial advantage with a quicker throttle twist, but the bike with the fastest initial accell normally shows itself anyway}
(and you can always do a rerun**)

** Reruns should be done at another location; As the bikes can be heard from a long distance and multiple runs may draw "unwanted" attention.
,,,, (Don't ask me how I know this) :whistle:


Ride safe, Ted
 
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texas.devops902

Eager Upshifter in SW Houston
Member
So, I've been duped?? o_O
Arghhh, the shame, the shame! :eek:

I was not being cruel. I was try ingto make the test fair by having her get on my bike. {I expected him to pull away}
She (on the other hand) WAS being cruel! hee hee

Your correct. Many things can be a variable and can effect the test.
** While evaluating earlier runs with Robert (bike #2) we thought that differing tire sizes may have made a difference.
But realized that the larger 55 series tire (which should have been a disadvantage) was accelerating the fastest. (??)
NOTE: We seldom go to 10k. Normally the fastest accell shows itself by 6-8K.

No, no clutch work at all.
The purpose of the Roll-on procedure is to make it entirely Bike X vs Bike Y.
So, we only twist the throttle.

Start procedure is EZ.
.. Both riders shift into 3rd gear.
.. #1 person watches his Tach and hold's his bike at 2,000 RPM (or another "agreed on" RPM)
.. The other matches him and nods when both bikes are even/ready
.. #1 does a count with left hand movement. ( 1, 2, "3" )
.. Both riders grab a handful of throttle and go on
"3"
NOTE: When I'm the #1 (counter person) I normally wait a half of instant after "3" {to be sure the #2 has time for an even response}
{Occasionally 1 bike will have an initial advantage with a quicker throttle twist, but the bike with the fastest initial accell normally shows itself anyway} (and you can always do a rerun**)

** Reruns should be done at another location; As the bikes can be heard from a long distance and multiple runs may draw unwanted attention.

Ride safe, Ted

“…may draw unwanted attention.”

LOL, yeah this can be a potential issue. 😉
 

ursharkfuel

God got one thing wrong: Stupid should be PAINFUL!
Member
Clearly, I did get a good one, and I agree that it has an advantage...
ie; I keep telling ya'll that 2014 RED is the fastest Color..

Another Roll-on report, kinda..
Background info;
Before the National I did a 3rd gear Roll on with my son on his FJR.
NOTE: He had his wife on the back and I beat him handily.
So, she got on my bike for another test.
We again beat him handily.
,,,,,,But this time, his wife was on my bike. {laughing and waving at him}. 😁

When #9 and I did our Roll-on's, Roger was behind us on his FJR.
He reported that he kept up with us.
This was a surprise to me {after my son's tests} so I asked him about it.
Roger sed that the difference was; he had Ivan's FJR Flash in his bike.

Ride safe, Ted

My friend Ted suffers from delusional thinking. RED is far and away a slower color, and he doesn't realize he actually NEEDS the mods to keep up with the box stock SILVER rockets. When it comes to a half a bike length that could easily be explained by reaction time, throttle adjustment or slack and so on. But I am sure the RED is the first problem Ted. Fix that flaw, and you'll have a faster bike - the mods will be the gravy!
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Ursharkfuel; I like your reasoning/explanation...
{It's wrong, but I like it!} LOL..

Jim; Staying ahead in the twisties is not a comparison of bikes.
It's more about rider skill, and I'm certain that your the faster rider.
Puuuuuuulease don't flash your bike...

The purpose of this discussion is NOT to see if my bike is faster than everyone elses.
The intention is; to get folks to use a Roll-on as a means to compare bikes.
We often see that people think their Flash/header/fairing/color is the best.
But; without a way to compare bikes, it's only an opinion.

By doing a Roll-on with another bike and sharing the results and variables, we can see trends.. {what is fastest/most torquey/etc}
{NOTE: Dyno runs are almost worthless for a comparison because the Dyno itself puts a huge variable in the tests}.
(ie; No 2 Dyno's produce the same numbers when run in differing conditions).
The Dyno plots can be used, but the numbers themselves will vary.

But 2 bikes, side by side, are a good comparison and the results can be used.

NOTE; Even with the variables, in my Roll-on's I can see that there is 1 thing that repeatedly stands out.
ie; 2014 RED is the fastest Color. 🤣

Now, if others will start reporting their tests, we may be able to "discover" other truth's..

Ride safe, Ted
 
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jim snyder

Member
Member
Don't worry Ted I am not going to flash my FJR, it goes faster then I can ride it now. But I was just messin with ya.
From your roll on test I would think your home built exhaust is atleast equal to or slightly better in performance then the Area P.
Of course this is just an observation.
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
I feel sooooo much better.
I'm not so sure about my system yet. I think the Full Area P should have pulled mine in the higher RPM's.
I think he may have had other variable's (high mileage engine) that effected the results.

When I built my system, I used headers with smaller head pipes and their not a true Tri Y.
I did this because they were available/inexpensive/had 2 mufflers/ and I thought they would give me better response at low Throttle settings.
I still think so, but a Roll-on (or a dyno run) does not measure that.

Ride safe, Ted
 

Hydroman

Member
Member
I just saw this thread for the first time today and enjoyed reading it. (I've only got through the first page)

Me and friend of mine used to do the same thing your talking about all the time for fun, just to test out our bikes and the mods. Not a race, but I think more than anything it is a good measure of low to midrange torque, which is what I like.

We would do each gear, one at a time except for first, because of wheelies. We would start at 3000 rpm. We would do second, and start over and then do 3rd and so on.

The first ones that we did was a 2005 (1st Gen) bone stock FJR (lower gearing than gen 2 or 3, I think) and a ZRX1200R bone stock except a slip on (which makes little difference on a ZRX)

We looked like Ponch and John riding side by side. I was amazed at how those two bikes were exactly the same in every gear. Neither pulled away from the other at any speed (we cut it off at around 100.)

I put a full muzzy system, Ivan's jet kit and pods. We did the same test and it was no contest. The ZRX would walk the dog on the FJR at any RPM, any gear, any speed.

He also has a 2010 C-14 that was bone stock. I never got to run it while my ZRX was stock.

So the ZRX piped podded and jetted would walk away pretty easily from the stock C-14, especially at lower RPM's. ZRX's have great low end torque.

The thing that blew my mind the most, was when he put a Two Brothers Slip on on the C-14. Nothing else. No flash, just a slip on.

Now the C-14 was dead even with the ZRX. I still can't believe that the slip on made that much difference without a flash.

Then I bought a 2013 C-14 that was bone stock. I put a full Black Widow system and a flash.

Now when we roll on at 3000, I might get one and half bike lengths in front of him at first, then they are dead even the rest of the way and that's just sometimes. Most of the times, they are dead even.

I was expecting to be able to smoke him. The difference IMHO was negligible. The only place that I barely had any more torque than him was at an RPM that is probably lower than I would normally be riding at.

Dollar for dollar he got more gains than I did.

I probably weight 10-15 more ponds than him. We're pretty close in weight.

I got tired of that Black Widow blasting out my ear drums on long trips, so I put a Yoshimura on the BW header and mid. It sounds much better, but we haven't ran since I made that change.

Sorry for being so long winded.
 
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