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Hand numbness

Glenn

Glenn

Moped
I've seen several posts with this topic mentioned and some responses to the issue. I've bought a 2011 C14 and am amazed at how both my hands go numb while riding. I'm an experienced rider but I've never had a problem with this before. I've tried loosening my grip, grabbing the tank with my legs to help alleviate the forward pressure on my arms, all to no avail. My left hand gets some relief as I can let go and get the circulation back, but of course I can't do that with the throttle hand. I'm going to get a throttle lock so I can let go from time to time, that helps out the right shoulder as well. I'm also getting some MCL bar risers, I'm hoping that will do something positive too. But, there's a mail strike here in Canada and I have no idea how long it'll take to get them. Any other ideas about this problem?
 
There was a good article in one of the moto magazines about proper posture and hand numbness.  I still think of it when my throttle hand starts to get numb. 
It says - There should be no pressure on your hands when riding, let your elbows relax, your hands should not be holding you on the bike, only to manipulate the controls. Your legs and posture will keep you on the bike.
I have been riding for 25+ years and got into bad habits,  I still have to think about it when doing any distance riding.  Sit up much straighter in the saddle and let my elbows (and hands) relax.
 
I've ridden my Harley day in, day out for weeks at a time. Before that I had a C10 that I used to ride a SS1000 and a BB1500 and before it I have had 2 KZ's that I rode all over the NW of the USA without any hand problems. I get a C14 and boom, there it is! :mad: Now I have to go to Charm School to get better posture? ;) Maybe when this goofy postal strike is over I'll get the bar-risers and that'll help. :c017:
 
The risers will help. So will softer grips or grip covers.

Now, why is the Canadian postal system allowed to strike?

 
Do you wear gloves? If not, you might want to try it. If you find them too hot in the summer, try fingerless gloves.

There are also some things you can do to smooth out the engine some. A throttle body sync and checking the torque on all the engine mount bolts usually helps.

Grip puppies are also an option you might want to look into.
 
Thanks for the response guys! I do wear gloves, the bar-risers will get here eventually, in the same package as the bar-risers is a set of grip covers. I'll wait it out 'til then. :) I have a hunch that there is a nerve in my hand that is being pressured with the stock setup.

In the meantime I'll walk around the house with a book balanced on top of my head! ;) (To improve posture!)

Why is our postal service allowed to strike? That is one very good question! :41:
 
One thing I noticed is that at 75 my hands do not go numb and bike is very smooth, but at 80 to 85, there is a buzziness and my hands go numb.  I also noticed an increased amount of vibration when using ECO mode on my 10.

I use the Go throttle lock, or whatever it is called, and it works very well for me.  Allows me to take my right hand off, or rest it lightly on the grip, alleviating any numbness.

YMMV
 
Has anybody thought about trying Phil's wedges? I don't think there on his website. But I think he still makes them!
 
I have the same issue with hand numbness on my '11 ABS. Never had this issue with other bikes. I'm using a Cramp Buster to give my right hand a rest and just taking my left off every so often. Thinking of going to risers, but haven't take the plunge yet.
 
I picked up my left-over 2009 a week ago Thursday and after the 10 mile ride home my hands were killing me.  Grips were hard as a rock and the grips are angled back at a weird angle that puts any pressure/weight on the outside ball of your palm.  Needless to say a set of Heli risers and gel grips were ordered the same day and have made a huge difference.  It's still not perfect, but it's 95% better than it was stock.

As far as gloves go, look for some that have good padding in the palm and it will help a lot as well.  Some have gel in the palm and some just use foam, so you might have to experiment a little to see which you like better.
 
Oddly enough, I'm relieved that there are a few others who have experienced the same thing as me. As I've said, I have been riding for 30+ years and this hand numbness deal is a new one on me. I'm thinking that the ergonomics of the model and my own physiology just don't jibe. No big deal, I know when the risers come in I'll have it all sorted out quickly. This bike is just so much fun to ride that I see it as a very small issue and a looong way from a deal breaker! After riding a Harley for the last 5 years, this bike is extremely smooth! :)) I really appreciate everyone's response, it has helped a lot. :c017:
 
I've had the numbness in the hands with the FJR, ST1300, ZX1400 and the 2010 C14.  I had/have none with my Goldwing 1800, Valkyrie, several bagger Harleys, or the Fat Boy. 

And, BTW ... I had the same/same numbness and pain on my mountain bike, too.

It all has to do with riding position where body weight is dumped on your hands.  The ulnar nerve in the palm of the hand does not like the pressure of the upper body on it and it goes numb .... sort of like a carple tunnel deal.  Mine was very bad.  Painful even.

Changing the bars on the mtn bike ... raising me up and reducing the weight on the bars made all the difference.

I used LSL bars and a set up from (I forget, but have it somewhere) on my Ninja ZX14.  Some BMW grips and the numbness was cured.

My C14 has MCL risers, Phil's wedges and another block I had made that is I" thick and about 4" long ... this puts the bars up and back a great deal ... but, still allows for the stock cables/hoses.  Viola !!  No numbness, no back pain, no neck pain, yada, yada.  I also use a throttle rocker (like $12) and Grip Puppies.

It's the position of the bars that causes all these problems.  Having the ability of adjusting the bars several inches would seem to be a requirement on a sport/touring bike.  But, sadly it is not.

Anyway, that's how you solve it.
 
I am fortunate enough to work in manufacturing and was able to get 1 1/2 aluminum blocks cut into risers, getting the holes correct and straight took patience.
 
I think Kawasaki are gonna have to tackle this issue seriously!

I had the 2008 GTR and it was perfectly smooth till about 36,000kms. A vibe started at 4,000 rpm and gave me numb hands. This was tackled by my local Kwak dealer who torqued mounting bolts etc and eased it a bit. Still there tho.

Bought the 2011 GTR in April and the vibration is ridiculous. I agree with the poster who mentioned that it's noticeably worse in ECO mode too. It seems to be when the bike is hunting for torque that it gets bad.

The high frequency vibration starts at about 3750rpm and gets progressively worse. This is what gives the numb hands. It's the high frequency that does it. I can feel it in the bars, the tank and the pegs.

My local Kawasaki dealer can't fix it so I got on to Kawasaki UK. They recommend bringing it back to the dealer I bought it from (major hassle, live in Ireland, bought bike in England). I'm waiting on another email from them to confirm what they want me to do.

This is clearly an issue with the GTR that Kwak are denying exists and it's ruining the new bike for me.

Anyhoo, I'll post back here when I get news from them.
 
The Stig said:
I think Kawasaki are gonna have to tackle this issue seriously!

I had the 2008 GTR and it was perfectly smooth till about 36,000kms. A vibe started at 4,000 rpm and gave me numb hands. This was tackled by my local Kwak dealer who torqued mounting bolts etc and eased it a bit. Still there tho.

Bought the 2011 GTR in April and the vibration is ridiculous. I agree with the poster who mentioned that it's noticeably worse in ECO mode too. It seems to be when the bike is hunting for torque that it gets bad.

The high frequency vibration starts at about 3750rpm and gets progressively worse. This is what gives the numb hands. It's the high frequency that does it. I can feel it in the bars, the tank and the pegs.

My local Kawasaki dealer can't fix it so I got on to Kawasaki UK. They recommend bringing it back to the dealer I bought it from (major hassle, live in Ireland, bought bike in England). I'm waiting on another email from them to confirm what they want me to do.

This is clearly an issue with the GTR that Kwak are denying exists and it's ruining the new bike for me.

Anyhoo, I'll post back here when I get news from them.
Click to expand...

Stig ... Have you tried to use Grip Puppies, or change he grips?  Grip Puppies are inexpensive and an EZ thing to do.  I have them on several bikes and like the results.  Just soak 'em up in soapy water and slide them on.  Air compressor with a squirt of air under the GPs helps a bunch, but not necessary if you soap them up enough.

Also, I don't think it's a real problem that Kawa needs to address.  Of course, I don't ride at 4K rpm much either.  What speed is that?  My typical speed is 45 - 85 mph.  I don't think I reach 4K for any length of time except on acceleration.  ??

Also, I ride with gloves most of the time.  Hot days, I switch to padded fingerless mountain bike gloves.  I use these on the mtn bike which helps with the ulnar nerve pressure and such.

But, everyone is different.  For example, nothing I could do to the FJR made it comfortable for me in any way.  Any way!  I sold it after just a couple years.  Never looked back, but there are those that swear by the FJRs .... even stock.  Go figure.
 
Cap'n Bob said:
IIRC, 4K was aproximately 80MPH!  ;)
Click to expand...

Thanx, Bob ... I prolly send 90 per cent of my riding time under 80 mph.  No wonder I don't know what rpm it is, eh.  Screaming down the Super Slab is not what I enjoy about this ... or any other ... bike.  I avoid the Slab as much as I can. 

Most of the back roads I ride are 40-50 mph posted, and we ride 10-15 over posted where it seems 'safe'.  If that can be determined.  :)

I wonder where in Ireland one can ride for any length of time at 80 mph? 

 
Howdy,
One more to think about, I went to Manic Salamander Bar End Weights.  They are heavier and do seem to help.  I also have risers and all of my gloves have gel palms.
Later,
Norm
 
Fred_Harmon_TX said:
Do you wear gloves? If not, you might want to try it. If you find them too hot in the summer, try fingerless gloves.
Click to expand...

I agree that you should wear gloves, but not fingerless gloves. Remember, dress for the slide, not for the ride. At least wear mesh gloves when it's hot out.

 
I've had the ST, FJR, and now the Connie.  AT 6'2" I always lean a bit in the cockpit and inevitably put pressure on my hands.  The numbness follows within minutes. That is the problem and there is only one solve to it regardless of the bike frame you are on...Master Yoda riding position.  In order to alleviate the pressure on your hands, and thus the subsequent numbness, you must squeeze your legs, engage your abs, and arch your back.  Core exercises such as sit ups, crunches, push ups, and the plank can strengthen your core and provide you a noticeable difference, over time, in your ability to maintain a more upright riding position.  If engaging your abs proves difficult or doesn't allow you to arch your back, then stick your gut out and arch your back.  The idea is to get upright, release the weight from your bars, bend your elbows, and lightly grip the grips.  Buying risers, aftermarket seats, peg lowers, etc., all help to bring your body again in to a more upright weight-off-the-bars position.

It's hardly a sport touring problem.  Sport bike riders have always complained about this and over time the strongest part of their body becomes their back, abs, and tank grip (legs).  Otherwise those bikes are nearly unrideable any further than the grocery store and back.  I'm hardly a road warrior, just a daily commuter, but I do notice a fair amount of difference if I practice my position on the bike during each ride and, God forbid, actually do a couple situps, pushups, and a minute or two of the plank twice a week.  It's not the bike.  We have to learn how to ride each bike (gas, clutch, brake, etc.) and we as well need to learn how to put our body on it in a way that is most enjoyable.

Just my .02 cents.  YMMV

SB
 
SuperBee .... you are completely correct with working on your core and riding position.  Changing the way a cruiser rider rides vs a sport bike rider is very different.

But, some of us are just not going to do that.  And, why would one need to change the way they ride a bike to ride a bike?  Have the manufacturers lost their minds?  Folks don't need to ride 400+ miles a day to enjoy riding.  But, some folks can't ride 50 miles without some pain ... butt, neck, shoulder, wrist, elbow, shoulder, yada, yada.  I'm one of them on some bikes.

I agree that working on core exercises, clamping your legs and such will help.  But, that's not for everyone. 

I ride a mtn bike 1000+ miles a year.  I work out with weights 3 times a week, crunches and such as well.  I think I'm in pretty good shape for an old dude.  But, moving the handle bars UP and BACK on the mtn bike, the FJR, the ST, the ZX14, and the C14 made a tremendous difference.  Tremendous.  This takes the pressure off the ulnar nerves and allows more butt pressure.  Makes sense to me.

Unless, one is truly dedicated to fitness, I think that making the ergonomics of the bike fit you are a better ... and perhaps ... easier thing to do.  But, of course, fitness and motorcycling are hand in hand.


 
Bagger said:
My C14 has MCL risers, Phil's wedges and another block I had made that is I" thick and about 4" long ... this puts the bars up and back a great deal ... but, still allows for the stock cables/hoses.  Viola !!  No numbness, no back pain, no neck pain, yada, yada.  I also use a throttle rocker (like $12) and Grip Puppies.
Click to expand...

How is it that with the risers, phil's wedges and the other block your made you were still able to only use your stock cables/hoses?  Didn't all of the above require extending the cable/hoses?  I have risers on and even bought phil's wedges though I haven't put them on yet - i was told extending the cables/hoses was a required thing.  Plus I heard that Concours handle bar adapters through Murhps would help.  Any thoughts on that?  I feel if I raise my bars just another inch or two (beyond the risers) my sore/numb wrist problem would be sovled.
 
Mako57 said:
Bagger said:
My C14 has MCL risers, Phil's wedges and another block I had made that is I" thick and about 4" long ... this puts the bars up and back a great deal ... but, still allows for the stock cables/hoses.  Viola !!  No numbness, no back pain, no neck pain, yada, yada.  I also use a throttle rocker (like $12) and Grip Puppies.
Click to expand...

How is it that with the risers, phil's wedges and the other block your made you were still able to only use your stock cables/hoses?  Didn't all of the above require extending the cable/hoses?  I have risers on and even bought phil's wedges though I haven't put them on yet - i was told extending the cables/hoses was a required thing.  Plus I heard that Concours handle bar adapters through Murhps would help.  Any thoughts on that?  I feel if I raise my bars just another inch or two (beyond the risers) my sore/numb wrist problem would be sovled.
Click to expand...

I can relate to your issues.  But, believe me ... I have MCLs blocks on the bottom (1.75"), Phill's wedges (causes a cant), and my 1"X4" aluminum blocks on top of that.  I sit pretty much like I do on my GL1800 Goldwing.  Maybe a bit farther forward, but just a bit.

I used some 1/4 inch X 1 inch aluminum strap to relocate the hose bosses out board a bit.  And, I have no restrictions for the stock hoses or cables.  I can crank the bars full right and left without any problem.  Just takes a bit of planning in designing the 1"X4" blocks and the boss relocation.

I tried to post some photos, bu they are TOO BIG.  I don't know how to make them smaller.  If you like, email me and I'll send you the photos that way.
 
The Stig said:
I think Kawasaki are gonna have to tackle this issue seriously!

I had the 2008 GTR and it was perfectly smooth till about 36,000kms. A vibe started at 4,000 rpm and gave me numb hands. This was tackled by my local Kwak dealer who torqued mounting bolts etc and eased it a bit. Still there tho.

Bought the 2011 GTR in April and the vibration is ridiculous. I agree with the poster who mentioned that it's noticeably worse in ECO mode too. It seems to be when the bike is hunting for torque that it gets bad.

The high frequency vibration starts at about 3750rpm and gets progressively worse. This is what gives the numb hands. It's the high frequency that does it. I can feel it in the bars, the tank and the pegs.

My local Kawasaki dealer can't fix it so I got on to Kawasaki UK. They recommend bringing it back to the dealer I bought it from (major hassle, live in Ireland, bought bike in England). I'm waiting on another email from them to confirm what they want me to do.

This is clearly an issue with the GTR that Kwak are denying exists and it's ruining the new bike for me.

Anyhoo, I'll post back here when I get news from them.
Click to expand...

I have been saying the same thing since I bought my 2010 last year.  I can ride with just my throttle hand, no pressure on the bars, and in lower gears around 4K RPM, my hand still will go numb.

The vibration was unbearable above 4K when I first got the bike.  From 5K to 9K, my hands would be completely numb within a few minutes.  Last summer, a guy named Martin on the other forum who had the same issues, working with his dealer in Europe, found that adding a 1.5mm thick washer to shim out the handle bar weights would kill the vibration at the grips above 4K.  This worked great for me as well.  I already had risers and Murphs grips over the stock grips.

I also agree with what others are saying about leaning on the bars will causes numbness.  If I do that, my hands go numb within 15 minutes at steady highway speeds, in 6th gear.  However, I'm always reluctant to squeeze the tank with my legs, as the paint is already showing lots of scuff marks where my legs contact it (stupid soft paint).

For all you guys saying 4K RPM would be too high (over 80MPH), don't forget there are lower gears.  If all I did was ride straight line at highway speed, then things might be different.  However, I ride lots of roads where I'm in 1st through 4th gear, running RPMs anywhere from 3K to the rev limiter, occasionally even dragging the pegs.

In short, I think there is more than one issue here.  Obviously leaning against the bars will cause hand numbness, but I believe the vibrations on some bikes is also another cause.

Also, I stopped using ECO mode because it increases the engine vibration noticeably on my bike, as well as increasing the closed to open throttle abruptness to almost dangerous levels when in downhill tight corners, rolling on the throttle in 1st or 2nd gear.
 
Thanks for the input on the ways of dulling the vibrations. The grip puppies will kill the heated grips I guess, so I intend trying the washer at the weights and if that doesn't work, then the bar raisers too.

The issue I have is that my 2008 GTR didn't have this vibration, I never got numb hands till 36,000kms and it started.

So, if Kwak CAN build a bike that doesn't vibrate, then why do some of them?! And to follow that, then why do some people accept it and make their own modifications? This is supposed to be Kwaks flagship tourer! A continent hopping bike! It's a crap one if your hands go numb!

The motorway speed limit in France where I was for two weeks on the GTR is 130kph..... right at the vibration. The speed limit on the motorways in Ireland is 120kph, just under the 4,000 rpm, but when you go to overtake the vibration is terrible. No matter what gear you are in, 4,000 rpm is the vibration starting point, so when moving up through the gears, I dread 4,000 rpm.

So, my question is, why are Kawasaki producing bikes that make riders hands go numb! It's unacceptable in my book! If you bought a new car and it made your ass or hands go numb, you'd return it to the dealer asap and demand a new one, why accept it in a bike.

Anyhoo, I'll update you with anything Kawasaki come back with. I just think it's wrong that we are paying premium prices for a fantastic bike, for it to numb our hands!
 
I took my C14 out for a ride today and decided to see what 4K was like.  Yep, it's around 82 mph on the Slab.  So, since I had nothing else to do, I rode for 45 minutes at 80-85 mph.  (I'm not sure what I'm running on the back roads in 5th gear, but prolly not 4K at 55/65 mph .. and I don't commonly drag parts either.  Plus, too many driveways that are blind this time of year with vegetation.  I'm trying to be careful out there.)

Anyway, NO numbness.  Zero ! 

I had some cheapo JR perforated gloves on, no palm padding to speak of.  I do have Grip Puppies on the stock bars.  And, with all the risers I have on the bike, I'm like 3.2" up over stock and about 2.3" back.  Rough numbers, but I sit pretty 'neutral' with just a little forward lean.

I've had some sort or riser on the bike since I bought it.  Just tinkered with various set ups until I got this one.  Works great for me and doesn't interfere with nimbleness of the bike IMO.

So, I did over 3 hours total riding today.  No numbness, no pain in my arms, shoulders, hands, neck.  And, believe me, I have quite a bit of tendonitis/arthritis in all these and other areas of my bod.  Sucks getting old.

Soooo .... I don't understand the numbness issue with my set up on the C14.  ??

I DID have numbness and pain on the Ninja ZX14 .... before I added the LSL set up and some aftermarket bars with BMW grips.  That 'fixed' that issue on that bike.
 
Stig .... the Grip Puppies will 'mute' the heated grips a bit.  But, I have them on my Wing and the Connie ... I still get heat.
Good luck, m'friend ! 
 
Hey Bagger! That's what I mean!! Some bikes have the vibe, some don't! That's what's freaking me out!! As I mentioned, my 2008 bike didn't have it, but the 2011 one does and it's killing me.

I had a crash about 2 years ago on a work bike and snapped my wrist. After about an hour on the motorway that wrist is killing me from the vibrations. The left hand is just numb, but the right hand is numb and sore  :'(

Snap with owning the ZX14, had one of those too and never had a problem with it  :) Loved that bike, just reckoned it would kill me some day.
 
Stig .... are you able to ride other folk's bikes that are 2010s or 2011s in your area?  Just wondering if someone in your area would let you ride their bike to compare it with you.  I'd surely let you ride my Connie if you were close by, m'friend.

I don't understand why some bikes would vibrate an others not? 

I tried to see if my bike had more vibration at .... say .... 2500 rpm than at 4000 rpm.  The feeling of my finger nail on the comm knob showed higher frequencey at 4K than at 2.5K, but not all tht much.

Odd, eh?
 
I did some experimenting over the weekend and I really think my biggest problem is caused by the angle that the grips are kicked back. When I rode with my hands slightly cocked so that they were basically more parallel to each other, my wrist issues when away. I bet if it were possible to bend the bars back out about 5-10 degrees, they'd be fine. I also find that a slightly "lighter" grip on the bars makes the vibration numbness go away.
 
Wally .... look in to Phil's wedges.  I think Murph is making them now.  But, they change the cant of the grips by turning the grips in a bit and bring the bars up a bit as well.

Do a search and you should see what these wedges do.  I think they may be good for you to try.
 
I gotta say my C14 is smooth as a babys butt  all the way to 6K.  No where close to any kind of vibration that would make me call it a problem.  There is the smallest amount on my right footback depending on how I shift somewhere around 5K but it's second and gone.
 
Bagger said:
Wally .... look in to Phil's wedges.  I think Murph is making them now.  But, they change the cant of the grips by turning the grips in a bit and bring the bars up a bit as well.

Do a search and you should see what these wedges do.  I think they may be good for you to try.
Click to expand...

Didn't find them on Murph's site. Anyone else got a link?
 
Wally .... not an exact link, but try here.

http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?topic=27550.new;topicseen#new
 
Right!

After Kawasaki Dublin examined the bike and after I contacted Kawasaki Head Office in the UK this is their response:

Dear Mr Xxxxxx,

Following on from our previous discussion regarding your 1400GTR.

We are disappointed to learn of the concerns which you have raised with your new machine but appreciate your time in bringing this matter to our attention.

As discussed in an earlier conversation, Kawasaki Motors has experienced no common issue arising or manufacturing defects developing with the 1400GTR which then leads to excessive amounts of vibration through the machine.

Having discussed the concerns which you have raised with your own machine with your dealer in Dublin, we have been assured that no fault has been found with your motorcycle. Whilst a level of vibration can be noted under certain riding conditions, the concerns which you have raised have been determined to be a characteristic of the 1400GTR. This has been confirmed when comparing two other machines under similar riding situations. Also, it is the opinion of your dealer and Kawasaki Motors that the degree of vibration is considered to be within an acceptable level and does not warrant any further investigation.

We trust the information obtained through your dealer will be of some reassurance to you. If you wish to discuss any of the information detailed above in more detail, please feel free in contacting me again on 01xxxxxxxxxxx.
Kind regards,

xxxxxxxx
Technical Service Advisor
Technical and Customer Service Group 

 
Kawasaki Motors UK 


................................ and so the battle lines are drawn..............
 
The Stig said:
Right!

After Kawasaki Dublin examined the bike and after I contacted Kawasaki Head Office in the UK this is their response:

Dear Mr Xxxxxx,

Following on from our previous discussion regarding your 1400GTR.

We are disappointed to learn of the concerns which you have raised with your new machine but appreciate your time in bringing this matter to our attention.

As discussed in an earlier conversation, Kawasaki Motors has experienced no common issue arising or manufacturing defects developing with the 1400GTR which then leads to excessive amounts of vibration through the machine.

Having discussed the concerns which you have raised with your own machine with your dealer in Dublin, we have been assured that no fault has been found with your motorcycle. Whilst a level of vibration can be noted under certain riding conditions, the concerns which you have raised have been determined to be a characteristic of the 1400GTR. This has been confirmed when comparing two other machines under similar riding situations. Also, it is the opinion of your dealer and Kawasaki Motors that the degree of vibration is considered to be within an acceptable level and does not warrant any further investigation.

We trust the information obtained through your dealer will be of some reassurance to you. If you wish to discuss any of the information detailed above in more detail, please feel free in contacting me again on 01xxxxxxxxxxx.
Kind regards,

xxxxxxxx
Technical Service Advisor
Technical and Customer Service Group 

 
Kawasaki Motors UK 


................................ and so the battle lines are drawn..............
Click to expand...

That is sad. 

One always hopes for the best, but you would at least expect something more than "it's normal".  Of course, they would never admit there might be a problem, because then they would open the door to every bike they ever sold.

Given you had a smooth 08 for awhile, you have proof you're not imagining what the bike can be like.  In my case, I've always wondered if mine is just like every other C14 out there, and that I'm just more susceptible to getting numb hands on it then everyone else.

All this week, I made a concerted effort to ride with my hands just "floating" on the grips, no pressures whatsoever.  In fact, I rode most of the time with just one hand on the throttle, to force myself to sit upright, with no forward pressure on the grips.  I found that my throttle hand still goes numb after 15 to 20 minutes of highway cruising in top gear, to the point that I have to let go of the throttle, stretch, and move around to get feeling back in my hand.  In lower gears, at higher RPMs, it only takes 5 minutes or less.

If I didn't love the bike so much, I would dump it.  It sucks that Kawi isn't more helpful with this.
 
The Stig said:
Hey Bagger! That's what I mean!! Some bikes have the vibe, some don't! That's what's freaking me out!! As I mentioned, my 2008 bike didn't have it, but the 2011 one does and it's killing me.
Click to expand...

Stig,
I have the same issue with my C-14. I've ridden another that was smooth as glass, the one I purchased is not. It has nothing to do with grip tension, handle bar height, weight distribution or any other rider induced factors. I also brought it up with the Dealer and Kawasaki to no avail. Pro gel grips and periodic re-torquing the motor mounts are the only two things that make it bearable. Had the throttle bodies synchronized. I even loosened all the motor mounts and re-torqued in the proper order with no change. As you have stated some vibrate and some don't.
 
Tundra Tom said:
The Stig said:
Hey Bagger! That's what I mean!! Some bikes have the vibe, some don't! That's what's freaking me out!! As I mentioned, my 2008 bike didn't have it, but the 2011 one does and it's killing me.
Click to expand...

Stig,
I have the same issue with my C-14. I've ridden another that was smooth as glass, the one I purchased is not. It has nothing to do with grip tension, handle bar height, weight distribution or any other rider induced factors. I also brought it up with the Dealer and Kawasaki to no avail. Pro gel grips and periodic re-torquing the motor mounts are the only two things that make it bearable. Had the throttle bodies synchronized. I even loosened all the motor mounts and re-torqued in the proper order with no change. As you have stated some vibrate and some don't.
Click to expand...

Tom,

Thanks for that info.  Sorry to hear it's happening to you too, but happy to hear it's not 'just me'.

So maybe we could brainstorm on possible causes?  Since you have tried motor mounts, and throttle sync (those were on my short list), and I've tried balancer shafts and complete exhaust swap, what else?

I've considered piston balance, but that would seem to be ruled out by Stig and his '08 being smooth up to 36K.

I also notice it's worse in ECO mode, so I stopped using it.  This implies that somehow fuel mixture could come into play.

I'm also wondering if valve adjustment could be a factor, as that's something that can vary from bike to bike, and change over time.

Just throwing out ideas, maybe we'll get lucky. :victory:  And yes, anyone can play, if you're intention is to contribute in a positive way!
 
I'm really sorry some of you folks are having issues with the vibration and numbing of your hands while riding the 2010 C14.  I have not had this issue ... thankfully!

I know this may not be possible for you that experience this problem, but IF it were me ... I'd trade it in on a 2011 version (after riding it to confirm it wasn't a vibrator).  Or, sell it on eBay/privately.  You may lose some cash on the deal, but I know how I'd feel every time I took the bike out for a ride. 

I have 2 other bikes so I would tend to choose the one that didn't make me crazy or make my hands numb.  Numb hands don't work the controls well either, so there's a safety issue, too. 
 
Goofy Canadian mail strike/lockout is over! I received my risers from Motorcycle Larry and installed them. I'll be going for a ride soon and I'll report on how things go. I'll put on my grip covers soon after trying out the new riding position. Fingers crossed!
 
Well I responded to Kawasaki with a mail today. I told them I am getting an engineers report done on the vibration so we can talk actual facts rather than "it vibrates at an acceptable level"!!

I also notified VOSA, the government agency in the UK that deals with vehicle safety and manufacturing defects / recalls.

Needless to say, I've heard nothing back from Kawasaki yet, as I imagine when I mentioned health and safety of riders and the potential for fatalities from riders not having the feelings in their hands that the mail went straight to the legal department!

Yes, I can certainly vouch for the 2008 bike I had that was smooth as silk, so yes, it can be done. I had the valves checked on that one and they were all within the specified tolerances. I had the mounting bolts torqued, bearings changed, wheels balanced etc etc etc.

I spoke with a forensic engineer today who says it's to do with the resonance of the bike. He's going to put sensors on it next week and get an exact reading. He specialises in doing this and is an 'expert witness' for courts.

When Kwak UK rang me, I told them that I don't actually want my money back, I just want a GTR that doesn't pain me! There actually is no other bike out there that I want at the moment.

Anyhoo, I'll keep the updates coming as they arrive.
 
Just got back from a short 30 mile ride to test out the risers. Partial success. My left hand is fine now, but the right hand still gets numb after only about 6 miles or so. I can make adjustments to how I grip the throttle to ease the numbness, (which I couldn't do before). When I remove my palm from the throttle and hang on with my fingers only, the numbness goes away. Tonight I'll install the grab-on grip covers and see if some extra cushioning will help.

Glenn said:
Goofy Canadian mail strike/lockout is over! I received my risers from Motorcycle Larry and installed them. I'll be going for a ride soon and I'll report on how things go. I'll put on my grip covers soon after trying out the new riding position. Fingers crossed!
Click to expand...
 
Hey, Glenn ... I have had this Throttle Rocker on several bikes, including the C14/GTR.  It fits over the Grip Puppies and is an adjunct to palm comfort IMO.

They are relatively inexpensive.  I usually get 2 in case one breaks, altho this has only happened after several years.  I like the broad one better.

I think this is the link:  http://throttlerocker.com/  Check it out.
 
Thanks guys, was looking at a throttle rocker type of product just yesterday. Will pick one up as was only about 12 bucks. Put on the grab-on covers so I'll give it another go tomorrow. Still optimistic! ;)
 
Bagger said:
Mako57 said:
Bagger said:
My C14 has MCL risers, Phil's wedges and another block I had made that is I" thick and about 4" long ... this puts the bars up and back a great deal ... but, still allows for the stock cables/hoses.  Viola !!  No numbness, no back pain, no neck pain, yada, yada.  I also use a throttle rocker (like $12) and Grip Puppies.
Click to expand...

How is it that with the risers, phil's wedges and the other block your made you were still able to only use your stock cables/hoses?  Didn't all of the above require extending the cable/hoses?  I have risers on and even bought phil's wedges though I haven't put them on yet - i was told extending the cables/hoses was a required thing.  Plus I heard that Concours handle bar adapters through Murhps would help.  Any thoughts on that?  I feel if I raise my bars just another inch or two (beyond the risers) my sore/numb wrist problem would be sovled.
Click to expand...

I can relate to your issues.  But, believe me ... I have MCLs blocks on the bottom (1.75"), Phill's wedges (causes a cant), and my 1"X4" aluminum blocks on top of that.  I sit pretty much like I do on my GL1800 Goldwing.  Maybe a bit farther forward, but just a bit.

I used some 1/4 inch X 1 inch aluminum strap to relocate the hose bosses out board a bit.  And, I have no restrictions for the stock hoses or cables.  I can crank the bars full right and left without any problem.  Just takes a bit of planning in designing the 1"X4" blocks and the boss relocation.

I tried to post some photos, bu they are TOO BIG.  I don't know how to make them smaller.  If you like, email me and I'll send you the photos that way.
Click to expand...

Bagger,  I just emailed you so you can send the photos but I don't know if it went through.  Let me know.  If not, I will PM you.

Greg
 
Hey, Greg ...  No, I use the original cables and hoses, etc.  I did make a .25" thick x  2.5" long x 1" wide strap aluminum to remount the hose bosses.  This allows for the use of all those pieces and still use the stock cables/hoses.  This works well.  There is not stretchng of the hoses or cables either.  Full lock in either direction is without any binding.

I just measured some of the distances FYI.    You can measure your stock, or risered, bike for comparison.  I put the bike on the center stand. 

Measuring from the pavement in my garage to the top of the handlbar weight end is ~45.25".  Measuring from the top rear of the mirror peak to the back of the handlebar weight is 17".  In fact, the top of the peak is parallel with the top of the bar end weight.  The tips of the handlebar weights are 29.25" from each other.

I took some photogs, but haven't downloaded them yet.  Some of the original photogs are too BIG for this forum.  I'll try to download and post them later tonight.

 
Anyone tried Murph's kit to remove the buzz?
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=130_133&products_id=76
 
I bought the ProGrips from Murphs and that lessened the numbing in my hands considerably.  I am going to put risers on here pretty soon and I expect that will solve the problem completely.
 
Just got back from a 40 mile ride... no change! Throttle Rocker is next on the list. My optimism is rapidly waning, I think this is the nature of the beast. I can shift my hand around to ease the numbness, so I'll continue to do that for now. In the future I'll install a throttle lock so I can let go of the throttle and get things circulating again. As I said, it is improved with the risers, but definitely not cured. If I was some kind of newby I'd say I was doing it wrong, but I've been riding for 30+ years and have never experienced anything like this before. :mad:
 
try this glenn; when riding on streight roads, don't grip the left bar, just lay your hand over the bar with slight pressure. another potential remedy is to change the angle of grip, try rotating your grip so the angle of the hand is inline with wrist. the throttle on the connie is so very light, there should be no problem with this side, if there is, you have to much forward weight on wrist. the numbess is caused by lack of circulation. solve that and you solve your problem.
 
wally_games said:
Anyone tried Murph's kit to remove the buzz?
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=130_133&products_id=76
Click to expand...

Those are the ones I put over the stock 2010 grips.  I cut the ends off, and use them like Pro Grips.  They help, a little.
 
Glenn said:
Just got back from a 40 mile ride... no change! Throttle Rocker is next on the list. My optimism is rapidly waning, I think this is the nature of the beast. I can shift my hand around to ease the numbness, so I'll continue to do that for now. In the future I'll install a throttle lock so I can let go of the throttle and get things circulating again. As I said, it is improved with the risers, but definitely not cured. If I was some kind of newby I'd say I was doing it wrong, but I've been riding for 30+ years and have never experienced anything like this before. :mad:
Click to expand...

I have a small diameter Cramp Buster, that I use as a throttle lock.  I put it on the bar weight, just over the end of the grip.  It has enough friction, if installed just right, that it holds the throttle for at least 5 seconds or more, which gives enough time to take my hand off the throttle and stretch.  If I hook it under the Pro Grip so it can't slip, then it holds the throttle as long as I need.

It also provides a place to rest my palm which also holds the throttle in place.

I spent almost 11 hours in the saddle today, only got off the bike 3 times for at most 10 minutes, and I'm not doing too bad tonight.  However, I spent most of that ride alternating which hand (or neither) was on the handlebars.  I was beat though, and barely got the bike in the garage without dropping it.  :sleepy:
 
Part of the defense Kawasaki used was that there are no records of this being a problem. So the question I have is, have people with the vibration reported it to their dealers, and if they haven't I think they should.

Kawasaki have an intranet that all dealers can access and search on. When a fault is logged on the system (I can only imagine it's a bit like a forum) all dealers worldwide can view it.

So, if you have a vibration, get the bike to your dealer and get them to log the fault and eventually Kawasaki should have to do something about it.
 
The Stig said:
Part of the defense Kawasaki used was that there are no records of this being a problem. So the question I have is, have people with the vibration reported it to their dealers, and if they haven't I think they should.

Kawasaki have an intranet that all dealers can access and search on. When a fault is logged on the system (I can only imagine it's a bit like a forum) all dealers worldwide can view it.

So, if you have a vibration, get the bike to your dealer and get them to log the fault and eventually Kawasaki should have to do something about it.
Click to expand...

Stig, they are flat out lying to you.  My bike was at the dealer multiple times for the vibration issues, I even called Kawasaki Corporate and had them log my complaint with my VIN records, just so it was on file there.  I wrote a letter to them with information about it, I've filled out 2 of their customer 'satisfaction' surveys where I complained loudly about it, the last one I stated the vibrations were bad enough to consider legal action.

I also know a guy named Martin in Germany had his bike to his dealer multiple times for the vibration issue.  He's the one that found the dealer that came up with the shim washer to the bar weight, to help with the vibrations in the grips above 4500 RPM.  If it wasn't for that, I probably would have dumped the bike.  At least now, I can enjoy it at higher RPMs for more than a couple of minutes at a time.

If Kawasaki has not heard about it, it's because they are deaf, and don't read.

Like all major corporations, contrary to their propaganda, they don't care about anything but $$$.  When it starts to cost them $$$, they will quietly address the issue, while continuing to deny it exists.  Want proof?  Ask them if they have had any KIPASS failures, or issues.

 
The bollixes!! Hmmmm, more ammo.....

That washer idea... where did you put it and how thick are the washers? I got a box of standard rust proof steel 10mm washers yesterday and fitted one between the bar end weight and the bar end. Made no difference lol.
 
The Stig said:
The bollixes!! Hmmmm, more ammo.....

That washer idea... where did you put it and how thick are the washers? I got a box of standard rust proof steel 10mm washers yesterday and fitted one between the bar end weight and the bar end. Made no difference lol.
Click to expand...

The washer thickness that worked for me (and Martin) was 1.5mm thick.  I also tried thicknesses on either side of it down to 1.0mm and up to 2.6mm, but nothing else really worked.  Also, it only made a difference above 4500, especially from 5K on up.  My bike used to vibrate my hands right off the bars at 9K and above, now it's no worse than it is a 4K (which is still pretty bad).

The washer goes between the bar weight and the bar.  It only helps neutralize the vibs in the grips.  The levers & the rest of the bike stay the same.  I'm guessing it must somehow "tune" it to match the harmonic of the vibrations.  Otherwise, it seems that more distance, or heavier weights, would be better.

I have been tempted to try heavier weights, but I seem to recall someone else did that and reported it didn't help.  Who knows if shimming them might make a difference though.

Typically a vibration is seen as bad, because it robs power, and will likely cause a premature failure of something if for no other reason than fatigue.  I am also surprised that Kawi will not take this seriously.  Maybe they think that any component failures will happen after the warranty has expired, so it's OK for them.
 
Also did the washer mod, valves set. The balancer shaft does not change vibration from everything I've read on the forums. I typically put pro-grip gels on as standard.
Between this and my rear brake almost melting down (no rocks jamming it either) I may be done with the brand.
Personally I find it offensive that the stealership implies it's fine.
It's has NOTHING to do with grip, body postion or anything other than the damn thing vibrates. I ride a Rotax 650 single that doesn't make my hands this numb.
One piece of advice I can give that has helped is periodically re-torque the upper engine mounts to 18 ft. pounds (I've tried other settings) These two bolts work their way lose over time and makes the vibes worse.
 
I've been there Tom! Sometimes I truly think they don't care, because they already have your money. I guess they don't think about future sales!
 
A further reply from Kawasaki UK:

Dear Mr Xxxxx,

As we are sure you can appreciate that an amount of resonance (vibration) may be felt by a rider or passenger during normal riding conditions. This does not suggest there is any fault with the vehicle. Such resonance will be the result of mechanical tolerance within any specific model.

Please be assured that we take such customer concerns seriously. As a result we have again spoken with Kawasaki Dublin who have once more reassured us that the level of vibration which can be detected through your machine during normal riding is no different when compared to other 1400GTR's available to them. In your dealers opinion, the symptoms that you have commented on are deemed normal and a characteristic which is displayed throughout the 1400GTR range. There are no alternative parts or modifications available from Kawasaki Motors which would improve the areas of concern which you have highlighted with your machine.

We note you are considering a further inspection of your machine through a third party engineer. We would be grateful to receive a copy of the report from the qualified party detailing their findings. If, in the event an issue is detected which falls outside of the general manufacturing tolerance within this model, we will present this information to your dealer who can investigate these findings further.

Kind regards,

xxxxxxxxxxx

So basically, they're saying that as there are two other bikes that vibrate the same as mine that it's ok?!? Oh, and they want me to spend a bag full of cash getting it tested by an engineer and forward them the results? No, I don't think so. I'll be keeping my results for my solicitor.

Anyway, I have contacted the European Consumer Council, MCN magazine and will be writing to the Senior VP & President of  Kawasaki Motorcycle and engine company in Japan. To hell with this, I've a bike that I can't ride and I'm pissed off.
 
I certainly understand every ones frustrations, and feel them too.

I went back to my dealer after a few weeks on my new 2010, and asked the owner to rev the throttle and tell me what he thought about how much it vibrated.  I didn't want to taint his feedback, so I didn't tell him why.  He thought it was terrible, and wanted to investigate further.

They contacted Kawasaki, who claimed no one had ever complained about it, and had no reason to suspect a problem.  Then the owner pulled a brand new 09 off the show room floor, and parked it next to mine, and another customers 2010 that was in the shop.  He said they were all about the same when standing next to them revving the motors in neutral, and concluded that must be the way they all were.  After that, he didn't know what else he could do.

So were does that leave the customer?  About where Tom and Bob are now...

Stig, since you are the only one who's mentioned having one that was very smooth, and then started vibrating after a certain point, can you think of anything that was done to your 08 just prior to the vibrations starting?  Any service work, maintenance, large bump in the road, anything?

I would like to think that this problem is solvable, but without the time to investigate and experiment, it's not going to be solved.  I'm still wondering if it's related to fuel &/or ignition timing.  Why else would mine get worse when I switch to ECO mode?
 
My experience and two cents.

I have Murhp's risers and it did nothing for the vibrations so I am think about taking them off. I have a set of bar end weights on the way to see what that does.

I saw several people reference Phil's Wedges, what are these?

Also, someone commented on Eco Mode. I tried to point out to the dealer that the eco mode cause idle rpm to rise almost 200-300 RPM. They "couldn't confirm that" and that it caused more vibrations. On top of that I thought the throttle was a little touchy in eco mode but discounted it as lack of experience but I did read someone else's post that they experienced the same thing. Now I only use the eco mode on hi-ways.

I got rid of a previous cruiser because of the vibrations and lack of power for the hi-way. I really love my connie but wish it was a bit less buzzy at speed.

For those that care, i use a thing call Cycle Guy Go Cruise to hold the throttle to give my hands some relief.

Nothing really new here just adding confirmation to the discussion.
 
hello everyone new to site just signed up as a guest, I'm so new my new 2010 1400 doesn't arrive till monday , can't wait. Anyway I've ridden a ST1100 for 20 years and as a Occupational Therapist that specializes in shoulder / hand pain I would like to give some food for thought. I too have had hand numbness that contribute  to Scalene muscles of the neck reacting to added stress or tension, placing added pressure on nerves to the hand. Usually when this happens I take note of any added stress factors[ fatigue traffic,excitement, grip,posture, or just anxiety]. If the numbness continues either while riding or at a stop I take my hand and massage the muscles and 99% of the time it goes way in a few minutes, after all it took time to build up the tension it will take take for muscle to relax. I broke my wrist a few years ago and have 2 plates, when i have specific wrist pain I wear a brace I bring along. I treat people with this shoulder/hand pain 2-3 times daily people don't realize how stress affects their body as you age,  Food for thought, hope to meet even more new people with my new ride
 
david said:
hello everyone new to site just signed up as a guest, I'm so new my new 2010 1400 doesn't arrive till monday , can't wait. Anyway I've ridden a ST1100 for 20 years and as a Occupational Therapist that specializes in shoulder / hand pain I would like to give some food for thought. I too have had hand numbness that contribute  to Scalene muscles of the neck reacting to added stress or tension, placing added pressure on nerves to the hand. Usually when this happens I take note of any added stress factors[ fatigue traffic,excitement, grip,posture, or just anxiety]. If the numbness continues either while riding or at a stop I take my hand and massage the muscles and 99% of the time it goes way in a few minutes, after all it took time to build up the tension it will take take for muscle to relax. I broke my wrist a few years ago and have 2 plates, when i have specific wrist pain I wear a brace I bring along. I treat people with this shoulder/hand pain 2-3 times daily people don't realize how stress affects their body as you age,  Food for thought, hope to meet even more new people with my new ride
Click to expand...

Welcome David, hope you enjoy the new ride as much as everyone else when you get it.  ^-^

Earlier in this thread we covered posture, putting pressure on the wrists, and rider positioning extensively, and how it can contribute to numb hands.  Hopefully we have gotten past that part, and can now focus on finding solutions to why some bikes seem to have a lot of handle bar buzz (high frequency vibration), and some don't.  So far, it's a mystery.

You should also start a thread over in the 'Introductions' page (http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/board,17.0.html), where even more folks can welcome you to the site.    :beerchug:
 
very interesting thread.  I posted something a while back asking others when they first begain to "feel" vibrations on their C14's, meaning at what RPM.  For the most part, this bike is silky smooth.  I have only found vibrations come into play when running through the gears at 5K plus and up.  When ridden in a, not even convservative, but lets call it "spirited" fashion, (shift points between 4-5K), I honestly can't imagine how this bike could be characterized as buzzy or vibration prone.  For grins I did a google search on the FJR 1300 and vibrations.  Wow.  Not there is some vibration info.  Run the same search on the Concours 14, and the majority of what you'll find are threads or articles testifying to the lack of vibrations on the Connie.  In fact almost every article or column I read on almost any sport bike, regardless of the level of satisfaction or review, most all mention something about vibrations at some point being part of the experience.  I've tried to remain objective but those same articles almost always go out of their way to discuss the smooth nature of the Connies 4cyl power plant.  Maybe others are experienceing something completely different but just my 2cents.
 
Well I brought my GTR to McCallen Motorcycles in Northern Ireland for a 'second opinion' on the vibration. He was confident that he'd be able to ease the buzzing. He talked me through what he was going to do on the phone and was interested in solving my problem! He's the other Kwak dealer in the country.

Interestingly enough, I told Kawasaki Customer Care that I was going to do this and they said they wouldn't cover the cost under warranty. In fact, they even rang him before I arrived and told him that there was nothing wrong with the bike..... Sabotage anyone???? Hows about letting the workshop check the bike before a desk jockey tells them there's nothing wrong?!

They took it for a spin and said that they could feel the vibe all right. He synced the throttle bodies (which were slightly out) and took some of the backlash out of the front balancer shaft.

It certainly smoothed out the bike up to 4,000 rpm but unfortunately it still has the buzz after 4,000 rpm.

McCallens were a pleasure to deal with. Big showrooms with loads of tasty bikes! All through the two hour job, someone kept coming over with updates, and Phillip McCallen himself was full of chat. He even took the time to ring me the following day to see if I was happy with the work.

He offered a few other alternatives to sort the vibe. The weights on the bars suggestion arose, I said I'd deffo try it. The other thing he suggested was interesting.

The part of the bars (risers) that has the 'webbed' bit of steel can be filled. If that was filled with a heavy metal such as lead, it might take the buzz from the bars.

The interest of McCallens was a breath of fresh air. They cared about the bike owner. They really wanted to solve the problem. They outshone anyone else I've brought bikes to.

Well, it seems that I'll have to go back to the drawing board. I got an email from a European Customer Protection office, and they said that if there is a problem with a product within the first 6 months of ownership, it is up to the supplier to prove there isn't a problem with the item rather than up to the customer to prove there is a problem with it......
 
Good info Stig.  It's always nice to hear about a great effort by a dealer.  Too bad there aren't more of them around, especially here in the states.

I went through some of what you just did when I bought my bike.  However, even though my dealer wanted to try a TB sync, thinking it would help, they couldn't get Kawi to budge on covering the cost of it, and they were just not big enough to be able to afford investing the time on their own dime.  I could have paid them to do it, but that's just wrong when you just spent all that money on a brand new bike.

There is a post around somewhere of a place that sells heavier bar weights, so they are out there.  I was going to try them, but the 1.5mm shim washer made a enough of a difference above 4K, that I never did.  I'm more interested in solving the problem, rather than covering it up.  Even if the hand grips are smoother, the pegs, seat, and tank would still buzz very badly.

I did make another discovery this week.  I replaced the air filter with a K&N that I bought (see this thread http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,28027.0.html), and after riding for 5 or 10 miles, noticed a definite decrease in overall vibrations from the bike.  It was not dramatic, but was noticeable.  Since my vibs have been there basically unchanged since day one, I know it wasn't just that the filter was dirty.

At first I didn't realize it, until I found myself going faster than I should have been.  I've trained myself to know about how fast I'm going by the amount of buzzing.  Once I looked at the speedometer and realized what was going on, I started experimenting.  The amount of buzz at 60MPH in 6th gear, before the filter change, is now about the same as 60MPH in 4th gear.  I even dropped into 3rd at 60MPH, and the buzz wasn't nearly as bad as it used to be.

I'm now on the hunt for a good 4 cylinder manometer so I can do my own TB sync.  It's sad the manufacturer will not own up to this, but apparently it's the only way it's going to happen.  It does not do well for their long term customer relations with me though, and totally kills any customer loyalty I would otherwise have.
 
Aaaaaaand a further update.

Kawasaki are denying there's anyone out there with a similar vibration (even though you guys know who you are) and are willing to do nothing more.

Thank you Kawasaki for screwing your customers by selling them a bike that numbs their hands.


Dear Mr Stig,

Thank you for your reply and the additional information that you have provided.

We have noted the questions that you have posed, please find our response to the issues which you have raised below.

1. To date your machine has now been inspected by two independent Kawasaki dealerships, one of them being the authorised importer for Ireland and a branch of Kawasaki Motors Europe like ourselves. Both dealers have confirmed that following their investigations, they cannot establish a warrantable fault with your motorcycle. Any concerns which you have raised to them regarding the level of vibration present during normal riding conditions are deemed to be normal for this model and are inherent characteristics of the motorcycle.

In answer to your question, we have been assured by both dealers that there are no reasons preventing you from continuing to use your vehicle. Of course, it would be prudent and responsible that if a rider were experiencing fatigue over a period of riding on any motorcycle, to stop and rest.

2. Your motorcycle has been inspected by two independent Kawasaki agents and the consensus from these dealerships is that there is no warrantable fault with your machine. From the information presented to us, no further action is deemed necessary by Kawasaki Motors.

3. We have taken the liberty to review global reports that are sent to and received from Kawasaki Heavy Industries factory in Japan and warranty records, independent press test reports and customer feedback information available to us. Since the introduction of the 1400GTR in 2007, we have not received reports which suggest there are vibration issues with the 1400GTR. If an owner believes they have identified an issue with their own motorcycle, then of course, Kawasaki Motors will investigate a machine on a case by case basis through the owner's local Kawasaki dealership.

If there was a clear manufacturing issue with your machine, Kawasaki Motors would address the situation under the terms of the warranty through your Kawasaki dealership. It is now the consensus of two dealers that the concerns which you have raised are not in relation to any manufacturing defect but are considered a characteristic of the 1400GTR. As a result there are no alternative parts or modifications available from Kawasaki which would improve the areas of concern which you have raised.

In view of the conclusions that have been reached and described above, Kawasaki Motors propose to take no further action.
 
Right, seeing as Kawaski are in complete denial that this is a problem on my bike, never mind that it's a worldwide problem, I've set up this page to see if we can show that it is a prob.

If you're Facebook savvy, 'Like' this page and leave a comment about your GTR1400 that vibrates and numbs your hands!



https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vibrating-Kawasaki-Gtr1400/178434848890050?sk=wall
 
I've taken the time to read all the post in this thread  :-[. I fall into the bad posture category. my wrist get numb because of the pressure of me leaning on them while riding. I changed my poster and took note of my wrist position, and the numbness stopped. My bike is no more buzzy than any other bike I've ridden and I'll take her over the vibration I feel when I ride my brothers M109R.
 
Stig,

  I never saw an answer to the question I asked you earlier about your 2008.  Any ideas?

C1xRider said:
Stig, since you are the only one who's mentioned having one that was very smooth, and then started vibrating after a certain point, can you think of anything that was done to your 08 just prior to the vibrations starting?  Any service work, maintenance, large bump in the road, anything?
Click to expand...

 
So, to update everyone with what's happening with my bike.  2 things I've done recently that have helped.

First, I replaced my air filter with a K&N, which made a noticeable reduction in vibrations.  Not drastic or dramatic, but definitely noticeable in that it took some of the edge off.  Basically, the vibration I used to feel when cruising in 6th gear is now at that level when traveling the same speed in 4th gear.  See these threads for more information : http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,28166.0.html, & http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,28027.0.html

Second, I installed a pair of Phil's wedges last weekend, on top of my Murphs riser blocks.  My first thought is it helped reduce the numbing of my hands by quite a bit.  Info on them is here :  http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=466

Before adding the wedges, my hands would contact the bars on the thumb side of my palms.  After installing the wedges, they now contact the bars on the outside (pinky) side of the palms.  This seems to change the pressure points on my hands.  Right after I installed them, I did a hot lap run up some back roads to the top of a local mountain.  I kept the bike in 2nd and 3rd gear almost the entire way, keeping the tach between 5K and 9K.  It's about a 20 mile run, with lots of twisty corners and short straights.  I never had to remove my hands due to numbness, where as before the wedges, I would not have made it more the 5 miles.

After reaching the turn around at the top, I never stopped, and did the reverse run back down, and a bunch more back roads before returning to my house.  The total run was about an hour, and almost 50 miles traveled.  When I got home, my hands were very tired from holding on to the bike (something I'm not used to), but I could still feel the levers with my fingers (no numbness).

I have trained myself to only ride one handed because of the numbing.  I would rotate my torso and reduce the reach to the bars.  This allowed me to sit more upright, and kept me from putting weight on my hands.  After installing the wedges, I've been making a serious effort to ride with both hands on the bars, and find I'm using 2nd and 3rd gear a lot more.  I've done several hundred miles now with the wedges, and so far there's been nothing even close to the numb hands I was getting before.  There have been a few times where I needed to take my hand off the throttle for relief, but still, nothing compared to what it used to be.

I still plan to do a throttle sync, to see if that helps even more.  Since my bike has a terrible hesitation between when the throttle plates start to open and when the EFI kicks in (very bad in 1st & 2nd when doing tight, downhill twisties), I'm hoping to eliminate that, and at the same time, reduce vibrations. 

I'm wondering if the majority of people having numb hands due to posture are shorter, meaning they have to lean forward to reach the bars, forcing them to put more weight on their hands.  For these folks, the wedges may help.  Also, as I recall, Murph offerer a satisfaction guarantee, which means you would only be out the cost of shipping them back if they don't help.

Hopefully this info will help others with this issue.
 
C1xRider said:
So, to update everyone with what's happening with my bike.  2 things I've done recently that have helped.

First, I replaced my air filter with a K&N, which made a noticeable reduction in vibrations.  Not drastic or dramatic, but definitely noticeable in that it took some of the edge off.  Basically, the vibration I used to feel when cruising in 6th gear is now at that level when traveling the same speed in 4th gear.  See these threads for more information : http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,28166.0.html, & http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,28027.0.html

Second, I installed a pair of Phil's wedges last weekend, on top of my Murphs riser blocks.  My first thought is it helped reduce the numbing of my hands by quite a bit.  Info on them is here :  http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=466

Before adding the wedges, my hands would contact the bars on the thumb side of my palms.  After installing the wedges, they now contact the bars on the outside (pinky) side of the palms.  This seems to change the pressure points on my hands.  Right after I installed them, I did a hot lap run up some back roads to the top of a local mountain.  I kept the bike in 2nd and 3rd gear almost the entire way, keeping the tach between 5K and 9K.  It's about a 20 mile run, with lots of twisty corners and short straights.  I never had to remove my hands due to numbness, where as before the wedges, I would not have made it more the 5 miles.

After reaching the turn around at the top, I never stopped, and did the reverse run back down, and a bunch more back roads before returning to my house.  The total run was about an hour, and almost 50 miles traveled.  When I got home, my hands were very tired from holding on to the bike (something I'm not used to), but I could still feel the levers with my fingers (no numbness).

I have trained myself to only ride one handed because of the numbing.  I would rotate my torso and reduce the reach to the bars.  This allowed me to sit more upright, and kept me from putting weight on my hands.  After installing the wedges, I've been making a serious effort to ride with both hands on the bars, and find I'm using 2nd and 3rd gear a lot more.  I've done several hundred miles now with the wedges, and so far there's been nothing even close to the numb hands I was getting before.  There have been a few times where I needed to take my hand off the throttle for relief, but still, nothing compared to what it used to be.

I still plan to do a throttle sync, to see if that helps even more.  Since my bike has a terrible hesitation between when the throttle plates start to open and when the EFI kicks in (very bad in 1st & 2nd when doing tight, downhill twisties), I'm hoping to eliminate that, and at the same time, reduce vibrations. 

I'm wondering if the majority of people having numb hands due to posture are shorter, meaning they have to lean forward to reach the bars, forcing them to put more weight on their hands.  For these folks, the wedges may help.  Also, as I recall, Murph offerer a satisfaction guarantee, which means you would only be out the cost of shipping them back if they don't help.

Hopefully this info will help others with this issue.
Click to expand...

Nice write up Rob, thanks. What kind of grips are you using?
 
ZG said:
Nice write up Rob, thanks. What kind of grips are you using?
Click to expand...

Thanks!  I have Murphs gel grips with the ends cut off, over the top of the stock heated grips (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=35).

popup_image.php
 
Sorry! Never saw the original question!! (My bind rage at Kwak affected my vision lol)

Anyhow, nope, nothing of significance. It was at the time I had the rear wheel bearings done. I was completely paranoid after having them done and to satisfy my curiosity, I had them done again. No change, vibration still there.

It was only afterwards after 'examinatinon' rides that I figured that it had nothing to do with rolling speeds, only engine speed.

My 2008 bike was serviced and babied. That bike was like brand new when I sold it on. Kept in a garage, no corrosion or 'furring' of the clamps or bolts. It was always cleaned before parking it up. I did the oil changes as per the manual, even more frequently actually!

Plugs & clearances were done by Kwak Dublin. That bike was properly looked after. I can think of nothing that happened in advance of the vibe developing.

I ordered bar risers last night to see if it will ease the discomfort. Gonna stick in a K&N as ZG did to see if that will move the vibe up the range a bit.

To answer your other q C1X, I'm a longer legged & armed rider, I'm 6'2.

What freaks the $h1t out of me is that we are having to spend money modifying the bike so we can ride it without severe discomfort. Maddening.

C1xRider said:
Stig,

  I never saw an answer to the question I asked you earlier about your 2008.  Any ideas?

C1xRider said:
Stig, since you are the only one who's mentioned having one that was very smooth, and then started vibrating after a certain point, can you think of anything that was done to your 08 just prior to the vibrations starting?  Any service work, maintenance, large bump in the road, anything?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Glenn, I have had a similar problem with my hands going numb.  On all my previous bikes I have been able to adjust the angle of the handlebars outward so my wrists aren't in an uncomfortable angle.  On the C14 they aren't adjustable and you can only do so much with them and the risers.  The risers helped to keep the weight off of my wrists but still didn't keep them from going numb.

Just recently I purchased Helibar Horizon St bars and so far so good.  They allow me to grab the bars in a much more natural angle and my hands haven't gone numb yet.  The test will be the ride up to VT.  The bars cost $715 shipped to my door, kinda expensive but it may be well worth it.

DSC00540-1.jpg
 
Thanks for the response Gigantor, yeah, those bars are kinda pricey, but they look great. Very different from the stockers.

I've installed Motorcycle Larry risers, Grab On grip covers, a Throttle Rocker and finally my Kaoko throttle lock has come in and I installed it immediately. Without the throttle lock I rode 1560 miles over 4 days last Friday to Monday. Every now and then I suffered some cramping but the Throttle Rocker let me get the cramps out and get the circulation happening again. Now that I have a throttle lock I'm confident I won't have any more problems.

BTW - Cool Captain America mirrors! 8)
 
Those are cool looking bars.

Hey, I just found something.  If you have a Android smartphone, there is an app in the market named Seismo.  You can use your phone as a vibration meter.

It would probably only be good for comparison purposes for a given phone (not really scientific), but it could prove interesting.

I'll play with it tomorrow, and see how it does.  Maybe a few others can too, and we can compare notes.  >:D
 
Good call C1X regarding the vibration meter!! Found one in the iPhone app store too. Will run a test on it tomorrow to see what it comes up with.

I also bought a lottery ticket today, if I win I'll pay the best engineer to test my bike and then throw resources at hauling Kawasaki across the coals for being assholes.
 
The Stig said:
Good call C1X regarding the vibration meter!! Found one in the iPhone app store too. Will run a test on it tomorrow to see what it comes up with.
Click to expand...

Excellent, I figured there might be one there too.

I'm going to try strapping the phone to the top of the clutch reservoir with some heavy duty rubber bands, and see what it does.
 
I put the Helibars risers on and had immediate improvement. Still some numbness, but noticeable impart. Also, good gloves helped a lot. Love this bike.
:-*
 
I've noticed that my wrist pain and hand numbness are significantly reduced by holding the grips more with my index fingers and less with my little finger. Changes the angle of my wrists so that they're more parallel to each other.

Has anyone considered getting a backup set of the round grip section of the bars and bending them about 10-15 degree and installing them in place of your stock set? (Wouldn't want to start jacking with your only set!) That would move them forward a bit, so wedges might be needed to bring them back to stock arms length.

I've also had some relief by adding a Go Cruise, but I had to double up on the "rubber bands" in order to make it hold speed better. On level ground it will hold the speed quite well and gives me several moments to get the circulation back.
 
My risers arrived today. Installed them and held my breath as I went for a spin.

My face didn't turn blue because I roared expletives as the vibrations in the bars were still significantly noticeable.

Fu(&in bike starting to really annoy me now!!

Gonna look for gloves with gel palms.....
 
The Stig said:
My risers arrived today. Installed them and held my breath as I went for a spin.

My face didn't turn blue because I roared expletives as the vibrations in the bars were still significantly noticeable.

Fu(&in bike starting to really annoy me now!!

Gonna look for gloves with gel palms.....
Click to expand...

I'm really sorry you are having such difficulties with your bike, Stig.  But, just adding the risers ... if it is only VIBRATION that is getting to you ... I would not expect them to alter this situation.

I was thinking about this the other day when I was riding my 2010.  Yes, I am aware of some vibration in the bars, but only very little.  Certainly nothing like some of the HDs I've ridden where I could not see out of the mirrors if the bike was running.  So, I don't understand why your bike would 'vibrate' all that much??  I wonder why your vibrates and many others do not?  Something's not 'right' with the bike.

I have to tell ya .... if I were having this much difficulty with a bike, I'd sell it and move on.  I did so with the 1st generation FJR.  Nothing made it comfy for me ... and I did everything to it.  Sold it and moved on to and ST1300.  I liked that bike nearly as much as the C14.  But, I wouldn't keep a bike that caused me physical pain, or inconvenience.  Just me.

 
Stig

I was having numbness too and bought a Throtle rocker (now this thing moves every so often so I have to adjust it) but the numbness is gone. not sure if this was the problem.
I will be investing in risers and also grips but so far the rocker has done me good.
I am not having the sort of vibrations you're having but these helped. Oh i also wear a pair of (don't laugh) Specialized body geometry bicycle gloves (lots of padding and I figure its a bicycle with lots of go)  :)).
Anyway hope you find out the problem.
Perhaps take the bike to KAWi factory and see if they can figure it out.
 
The Stig said:
My risers arrived today. Installed them and held my breath as I went for a spin.

My face didn't turn blue because I roared expletives as the vibrations in the bars were still significantly noticeable.

Fu(&in bike starting to really annoy me now!!

Gonna look for gloves with gel palms.....
Click to expand...

What other bikes have you had or have Stig? I'm curious what you're comparing the vibration with...
 
Yeah, was hoping the risers would take the pressure off the hands and take a bit of the buzz from the bars. I'm going to try the bigger bar end weights next to see if that helps.

I've had it with two Kwak dealers now who reported back to Kawasaki Head Office UK that yes, there is a vibe, but Kwak HO say it's a 'characteristic' and not a problem. I'm frustrated and infuriated at the response by Kawasaki.

Only reason I haven't sold it on is that it's four months old and I'll take a massive loss in the pocket.

List of bikes before the 2011 GTR in order:

2008 GTR1400
2006 ZZR1400
1999 Honda Blackbird
1997 VTR1000

At work, FJR1300 & NT700 Deauville.

 
The Stig said:
List of bikes before the 2011 GTR in order:

2008 GTR1400
2006 ZZR1400
1999 Honda Blackbird
1997 VTR1000

At work, FJR1300 & NT700 Deauville.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's a good list to compare against. Odd that you have more vibe on your 11 then you did on your 08??  :017:

 
That's what's freaking me out the most! I KNOW there are GTR1400's that do not vibrate and that mine shouldn't. If I had seen into the future, I'd have kept the 2008 GTR and not bothered with the new one!  :mad:
 
My '10 bike also tends to numb my left hand after a while.  I put HVMP heavy bar ends on my Buell and I can ride it all day without numbness.  My COnnie came with a Throttlemeister installed that I don't care for too much, I was thinking of switching them out for heavy bar ends.  Murph sells a kit but says that is does not work with the heated grips:

http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=130_133&products_id=76

Anyone know why they don't work with the heated grips that are standard on the 10/11?

I also have a Throttle Rocker that I use and I have used for years, it really is a great device.
 
peelandwin said:
My '10 bike also tends to numb my left hand after a while.  I put HVMP heavy bar ends on my Buell and I can ride it all day without numbness.  My COnnie came with a Throttlemeister installed that I don't care for too much, I was thinking of switching them out for heavy bar ends.  Murph sells a kit but says that is does not work with the heated grips:

http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=130_133&products_id=76

Anyone know why they don't work with the heated grips that are standard on the 10/11?

I also have a Throttle Rocker that I use and I have used for years, it really is a great device.
Click to expand...

Wondering the same thing re: bar ends and not working with heated grips.  Curious do you use bar risers?
 
The Connie came the Buell pegs and MCL (I think) risers.  I went back to stock pegs and removed the risers but I put the risers back on after installing a  Corbin seat.  There was no noticeable difference in vibration with or without the risers.

 
Got to say it, that's why I've favored twins over fours and no cruise on this bike is nuts.  I compete nationally in shooting sports and if I can't let go of the throttle I just leave my trigger finger home.

Vibration moves around and drinks out from the structure or terminates in different places at different rpm.

Foot pegs, handlebars, sissy bars, mirrors, fenders, GPS, windscreens and all things bolted to the host structure and going nowhere become potential tuning forks (mostly over torqued) and they can all be numbed at select rpm.

My 2011 C14 immediately got the following:

THROTTLE MEISTER

25 ml Teflon tape above and below the 2" Heli risers torqued modestly.

Cee Bailey 1/4" Euro shield

cork bike bar wraps on passenger hold bars and clutch lever tail and if you like, it will soften and deaden the grips/they still get hot.

shape neoprene bits or use Teflon tape (aircraft apps) where things go buzz... remember rubber bands

gloves/extend fingers to rest on calm levers rather than wrapping fingers to clutch the grip

keep changing touch points/ finger exercise until it becomes habit/ just don't let them sleep

Sleepy hands may start in the armpits of improper fitting upper garments and jackets/ I have a nice Triumph jacket I can't wear, period.

pad the clutch and brake reservoirs to be a place to rest hands 2 or 3 minutes out of every 20 with TM set for cruise.


I don't have enough interstate behind me to know where my C14 wants to cruise but, I'm confident that I can change things to where we can get along somewhere between 68 and 74 mph continuous.  I racked up 137,000 miles on my '79 Suzuki GS850S and while I was younger I learned that speed, wind, noise, and vibration lengthen every trip and need to be addressed by the rider.  If you always ride at 80 and are proud of it, get in the right lane and slow to 63 some Sunday morning... feels a little like church.
 
So I went to WhiteHorse Gear yesterday nice ride by the way. Picked up a pair of RoadGear Outlast gloves (nothing fancy) and some other stuff  ;), and together with the Throtle rocker was able to do nearly 400 miles without numbness  :) hmmmm whats wrong with this picture? In fact these gloves have no padding in the palm.
Hopefully this cures that problem.  :whoo: now if I could only cure the shoulder tighness  ???
 
Here's a thought. Is anyone that has vibes using mineral oil in the engine?

I remember with the Blackbird I changed the oil and used fully synth. The noise from the engine and clutch basket was so bad that I dumped the fully synth and filled with semi. Problem solved.

I have no idea what the bike comes with, no idea what was put into it at first service. Might try mineral oil to see if it makes any difference. Hey, I've tried almost everything else....
 
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