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Hand numbness
- Thread starter Glenn
- Start date
Sirius Scratch
Moped
It's all ergonomics. I agree with your observation that you are pressuring a nerve in your hand. Your posture isn't necessarily bad, it's just different on the Connie than on your other bikes. All the long time riders here agree with what I've experienced, and what I've learned in riding clinics. Any slight forward ergs on the Connie or any other bike will have you loading up pressure on your palms and wrists over time. You'll naturally carry the load of your upper torso in your back and legs when you first get on (assuming you are riding properly), but as you fatigue slightly, you begin to rest more and more weight in your arms. If you are consistently numbing your hands, then there is also the possibility that you are riding a bit too long without a break. Numb hands are a possible indication that you aren't paying attention and moving around slightly in your seat from time to time and actively keeping your arms unloaded.
Every bike's ergonomics are different. Handle bar risers, better seats, and peg lowering kits can all contribute to less loading on your hands. But remember that long rides fatigue the body AND the mind. Regardless of what is contributing to the numb hands, please be sure that it is not accompanied by a numb (fatigued) mind, and you are taking enough breaks (stopped and off the bike) to keep you sharp.
Stay safe my friend!
Every bike's ergonomics are different. Handle bar risers, better seats, and peg lowering kits can all contribute to less loading on your hands. But remember that long rides fatigue the body AND the mind. Regardless of what is contributing to the numb hands, please be sure that it is not accompanied by a numb (fatigued) mind, and you are taking enough breaks (stopped and off the bike) to keep you sharp.
Stay safe my friend!
I just installed the Wedges and it definitely made a difference. My question to those that installed them, were you able to get the plastic caps back into the bolts without modification or did you have to sand down one side of the plugs? The bolts in mine are now offset to the outside of the holes in the bars and so the plugs don't fit anymore.
Regards, Guy
Regards, Guy
Sirius Scratch said:
In the case of The Stig, C1xRider, Myself and others it has NOTHING to do with ergonomics. It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that some C-14's vibrate and some do not. My 1999 F-650 Rotax single cylinder engine is smoother than the C-14. :-[
SuperBee
Moped
Hand numbness is caused by two main reasons while riding a motorcycle; 1) nerve compression, and 2) restricted blood flow, primarily to the nerve bundle(s) in the hand. It is commonly referred to as nerve palsy.
Specifically, the deep palmar branch (DPB) of the ulnar and radial artery passes under two important structures of the hand that, without posture modifications, will decrease blood supply to the radial and ulnar nerve branches of the hand. The radial nerve and radial portion of the DPB pass under the meaty portion of the palm leading to the thumb known as the Thenar muscle. Conversely, the ulnar nerve and its portion of the DPB pass under the other meaty side of the palm known as the Hypothenar muscle. Compression of these areas will result in nerve palsies.
We naturally compress these nerve and artery pathways by virtue of holding on to the grips and then eventually, because of fatigue in our upper torso and abdomen, from leaning against the bars/grips for relief. Vibration alone is rarely the cause and if so, is most likely a repeated nerve compression syndrome akin to that of a jackhammer operator. Hand nerve palsies are common amongst bicycle riders as well, and sport bike riders are plagued with it to ad nauseum. They are, however, mostly a younger demographic and not prone to complaining (medical connotation intended) about their numb hands for fear of denigrating their testosterone levels.
Anatomy and ergonomics does explain true motorcycle-related hand numbness. There are also a host of diseases and spinal malformations that can cause hand numbness, but on whole; your anatomy, ergonomics, body position (master Yoda), and natural fatigue will play the key reversible roles in resolving the chronic issue.
Trading one's bike in because of this is plausible and unfortunate. Every make and model of motorcycle will have a different riding position according to your anatomy and physiology. Good luck and safe riding in the future.
SB
Specifically, the deep palmar branch (DPB) of the ulnar and radial artery passes under two important structures of the hand that, without posture modifications, will decrease blood supply to the radial and ulnar nerve branches of the hand. The radial nerve and radial portion of the DPB pass under the meaty portion of the palm leading to the thumb known as the Thenar muscle. Conversely, the ulnar nerve and its portion of the DPB pass under the other meaty side of the palm known as the Hypothenar muscle. Compression of these areas will result in nerve palsies.
We naturally compress these nerve and artery pathways by virtue of holding on to the grips and then eventually, because of fatigue in our upper torso and abdomen, from leaning against the bars/grips for relief. Vibration alone is rarely the cause and if so, is most likely a repeated nerve compression syndrome akin to that of a jackhammer operator. Hand nerve palsies are common amongst bicycle riders as well, and sport bike riders are plagued with it to ad nauseum. They are, however, mostly a younger demographic and not prone to complaining (medical connotation intended) about their numb hands for fear of denigrating their testosterone levels.
Anatomy and ergonomics does explain true motorcycle-related hand numbness. There are also a host of diseases and spinal malformations that can cause hand numbness, but on whole; your anatomy, ergonomics, body position (master Yoda), and natural fatigue will play the key reversible roles in resolving the chronic issue.
Trading one's bike in because of this is plausible and unfortunate. Every make and model of motorcycle will have a different riding position according to your anatomy and physiology. Good luck and safe riding in the future.
SB
Attachments
Just installed LSL bars with risers , the bike should come this way :beerchug:
Night and day I wanted to go to Daytona but I new my right hand could not do it .
I'm going tomorrow.
I'm 57 years young and this is the first bike I've had with this hand problem ,
NOT anymore .........LSL's and risers
8)
Night and day I wanted to go to Daytona but I new my right hand could not do it .
I'm going tomorrow.
I'm 57 years young and this is the first bike I've had with this hand problem ,
NOT anymore .........LSL's and risers
8)
wally_games
Mini Bike
It they'd change the angle of the grips, making them more parallel to each other, I believe that many, if not most, people would find that their hands don't go numb nearly as quickly, if at all. There have been a few people talk about modifying the grip portion of the bar to reduce the rearward angle, but I've not heard anyone come back with results.
Wally, I cannto help but agree. The flatter bar position has cured my hand numbness. The wedges are a very inexpensive way to deal with the odd angle that the stocl bars have.
bbuckvi@gmail.com
Tricycle
Numb on short rides and long. Chiropractor (and motorcycle rider) said:
1. Get a lighter helmet (doctor prescribed reason to buy a new helmet? Oh yeah :-*)
2. Build up the muscles around the neck/upper back. (with severe numbness, touch the lower back of your neck and feel the pain)
3. stock up on Potassium
1. Get a lighter helmet (doctor prescribed reason to buy a new helmet? Oh yeah :-*)
2. Build up the muscles around the neck/upper back. (with severe numbness, touch the lower back of your neck and feel the pain)
3. stock up on Potassium
For those of you that have installed wedges, did they do much? I noticed today after about 15 min that my left hand is falling asleep. If I loosen my grip and barely hold the throttle it will go away. This is telling me that it's the pressure on my hands. It's usually the left thumb, index and middle finger. The other thing that I noticed is that if I move my hand so the right side of my palm is hitting the bar end weight this helps as well, but it's not as comfortable.
Do the wedges move the bars out, in, or what exactly is the position that they move to?
Do the wedges move the bars out, in, or what exactly is the position that they move to?
I found the wedges helped my numbness issue a lot. They move the handles back and straighten the angle. Murph risers also helped but I still feel like I am leaned too forward. I've been thinking about the new advanced sport touring risers which would upright my posture more and take more pressure off the hands but $175 seems to be a bit of a gamble.
RideBellChain
Street Cruiser
I will say that after 1100 miles, I'm not getting numb any more. I think it's because I have been squeezing with my legs and sitting up with a straighter back - I can keep my arms bent comfortably and not putting too much pressure on the hands.
I am also starting to walk/run around the block, and I'm strengthening my core and it helps.
I can stand about 1 hour to 1:20 without hand issues...that's increasing now, and at least I feel like I can do long trips as long as I stop every hour. That's not really a problem, because I'm ready to stretch after an hour or so whether I need gas or not..
I am also starting to walk/run around the block, and I'm strengthening my core and it helps.
I can stand about 1 hour to 1:20 without hand issues...that's increasing now, and at least I feel like I can do long trips as long as I stop every hour. That's not really a problem, because I'm ready to stretch after an hour or so whether I need gas or not..
I just bought a 2012 and have to agree with Badger. It feels like a nerve/weight on the palms thing. I went out for a 150 mile trek with the wife today and found it even worse with a rider. It's cold here in NY this time of year, and I've been riding with pretty heavy gloves. That isn't helping. The stock bars/grips feel small and too hard. I'm hoping to find a slip on grip cover to give me at least a 1/4"
in. more diameter and some cushioning. Not to mention dampening the heat from those grip warmers. Sheesh, my hands are sweating on the lowest setting, and I've been riding into the upper 30's 40's and lower 50's. I'm going to resist the urge to get the bars back further for now. A bike with this much power needs a leaned forward riding position. I don't want to have that "hanging from a trapeze" feeling every time I get it above 5000rpm. I'm hoping that warmer weather will let me lower the windshield to its "down" position, giving me more frontal wind resistance. Along with better cushioned grips, and a trunk with backrest, so the wife wont have to cling on to me for dear life so much.
I'd just like to say that I've just joined this forum because I just bought the bike. The information I've already gained from reading posts has been invaluable. :motonoises:
in. more diameter and some cushioning. Not to mention dampening the heat from those grip warmers. Sheesh, my hands are sweating on the lowest setting, and I've been riding into the upper 30's 40's and lower 50's. I'm going to resist the urge to get the bars back further for now. A bike with this much power needs a leaned forward riding position. I don't want to have that "hanging from a trapeze" feeling every time I get it above 5000rpm. I'm hoping that warmer weather will let me lower the windshield to its "down" position, giving me more frontal wind resistance. Along with better cushioned grips, and a trunk with backrest, so the wife wont have to cling on to me for dear life so much.
I'd just like to say that I've just joined this forum because I just bought the bike. The information I've already gained from reading posts has been invaluable. :motonoises:
ChipDoc
Sport Tourer
Yep, that's the key! It helps if you shift around every now and then. Sometimes I lean forward, sometimes I sit up, occasionally I pull back. Grip with your legs, tighten your abs, and remember that's it's actually ok to lean on your wrists too occasionally.RideBellChain said:
cuda said:
From page 2 of this thread. 2011 second gen. C-14....
The Stig
Tricycle
Posts: 45
AREA: Southwest Area
Re: Hand numbness
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2011, 01:05:09 PM »QuoteI think Kawasaki are gonna have to tackle this issue seriously!
I had the 2008 GTR and it was perfectly smooth till about 36,000kms. A vibe started at 4,000 rpm and gave me numb hands. This was tackled by my local Kwak dealer who torqued mounting bolts etc and eased it a bit. Still there tho.
Bought the 2011 GTR in April and the vibration is ridiculous. I agree with the poster who mentioned that it's noticeably worse in ECO mode too. It seems to be when the bike is hunting for torque that it gets bad.
The high frequency vibration starts at about 3750rpm and gets progressively worse. This is what gives the numb hands. It's the high frequency that does it. I can feel it in the bars, the tank and the pegs.
My local Kawasaki dealer can't fix it so I got on to Kawasaki UK. They recommend bringing it back to the dealer I bought it from (major hassle, live in Ireland, bought bike in England). I'm waiting on another email from them to confirm what they want me to do.
This is clearly an issue with the GTR that Kwak are denying exists and it's ruining the new bike for me.
Anyhoo, I'll post back here when I get news from them.
RideBellChain
Street Cruiser
Upstate Pete said:
I took my wife for a ride yesterday...she was pushing me into the gas tank until I told her to scoot back a bit. Made everything better. I did notice more pressure on my hands with a passenger...but that's why we kept the cruiser!
On another note, being squished into the gas tank made me realize why so many girls ride their own sportbike...
pdxflyer48
Big Wheel
I am on "old man" (63) and have been riding most makes and models since I was 16... I finally found a product that works great... "Heli-Mod handle bars" are the absolute greatest for my 2012 Connie. I can sit upright and cruise without my arms and hands going to sleep.. Expensive but well worth it.
Exiledviking
Training Wheels
Anyone had this issue and had the reflash of the ECM by Guhl? I am wondering if it possible that some of the vibration stems from fueling...
.
- am resisting changing too many things on the bike now , and concentrating on getting used to the bike (and not the other way round).
- used to ride and race bicycles alot and it was a given that a new seat and a new position will be a torture , but everyone just grits-teeth and gets on with the job. If we threw away every bicycle saddle which made us sore , we'd not have any bicycles left to ride.
.
- am resisting changing too many things on the bike now , and concentrating on getting used to the bike (and not the other way round).
- used to ride and race bicycles alot and it was a given that a new seat and a new position will be a torture , but everyone just grits-teeth and gets on with the job. If we threw away every bicycle saddle which made us sore , we'd not have any bicycles left to ride.
.
stewarth
Scooter
Phew...sitting in an airport and just read this entire thread. Someone should create a book.
Anyway, I do experience some vibration on my 10' and it did get worse in the crutch when I overtightened the tank bolts, but other than that I put anything I notice now down to throwing a leg over a 1.4ltr engine.
As for Guhl Flash, I have it and have noticed no change in vibration.
As for riding at or around 4k, I only do this on the super slab and for long periods of times....my butt goes numb and my knees hurt before my hand does anything and if it does its due to pressure not vibes.
Off the slab, I ride between 2k and red line....so I don't care if it vibrates more at 4k or not. I'm having too much fun...
Stig, sorry to hear you we're not able to make it work.
Anyway, I do experience some vibration on my 10' and it did get worse in the crutch when I overtightened the tank bolts, but other than that I put anything I notice now down to throwing a leg over a 1.4ltr engine.
As for Guhl Flash, I have it and have noticed no change in vibration.
As for riding at or around 4k, I only do this on the super slab and for long periods of times....my butt goes numb and my knees hurt before my hand does anything and if it does its due to pressure not vibes.
Off the slab, I ride between 2k and red line....so I don't care if it vibrates more at 4k or not. I'm having too much fun...
Stig, sorry to hear you we're not able to make it work.
curtthomas
Bicycle
My son-in-law is a very renowned chiropractor to many athletes. I inquired about this phenomenon to him. (he used to ride sport-bikes allot in his college days) His explanation was a particular nerve and bloodvessles that are affected by pressure throughout the entire curved line that runs across the palm of one's hand. It can easily be located by viewing the palm of your hand and looking for the major line (gypsy palm-readers would call it a life line) that runs from midway between your index finger (pointer) and your thumb and curves down to the middle of your wrist (line #1). He said that there is another prominent line just above that one, that runs across the hand (line #2 in the pic.) He said that pressure applied across this line (#2) that will cause numbness.
I have since experimented with this and when placing the grip along this line, it doesn't take long to produce numbness. By simply placing line #4 over the grip the problem goes away. We tend to place our hand on the grip wrong because of our overall body posture. He said slumping on a motorcycle is common and very wrong, as it slows our reaction time, requires more effort to preposition out of, and it is bad for our backs. Try re-positioning your hand and being more conscientious about your entire posture as you ride and you should alleviate the problem. Lastly, tightening your glove or jacket too tightly around your wrist also contributes to this. Hope this helps. -Curt (P.S. I tried to post a picture of the palm, with the lines numbered, but it doesn't show when I preview my post. I hope it posts for clarity, otherwise go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmistry#Lines to view the picture.) :great:
I have since experimented with this and when placing the grip along this line, it doesn't take long to produce numbness. By simply placing line #4 over the grip the problem goes away. We tend to place our hand on the grip wrong because of our overall body posture. He said slumping on a motorcycle is common and very wrong, as it slows our reaction time, requires more effort to preposition out of, and it is bad for our backs. Try re-positioning your hand and being more conscientious about your entire posture as you ride and you should alleviate the problem. Lastly, tightening your glove or jacket too tightly around your wrist also contributes to this. Hope this helps. -Curt (P.S. I tried to post a picture of the palm, with the lines numbered, but it doesn't show when I preview my post. I hope it posts for clarity, otherwise go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmistry#Lines to view the picture.) :great:
