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Aftermarket headers

chrismpero

Member
Member
Looking into replacing my stock manifold with an aftermarket header. Besides the ZX route we apparently have 3 direct fit choices that I know of, Area P, Delkevic and Black Widow. I would probably be using an Akrapovic slip-on as my muffler.. I've searched and seen opinions on Area p and Delkevic but not Black Widow. Looking into opinions on build quality on any or all of them. Thank you.
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
I went with the ZX-14 Headers and basically built my own mid pipes and mounts. I use Area P mufflers.
Lotsa work to get it the way I wanted it...
At the time, Muzzy and Area P were available. With Area P being top dog, and Muzzy eventually going away completely.
I think Delk. has surprised many with it's quality. Not perfect, but good for 1/2 the cost.
Yoshimira and Akrapovic headers are also being used by some.

If you do the headers, a Flash is almost mandatory.

As far as which one to get, It all comes down to how deep your pockets are.

NOTE: Many have discovered that just doing a Flash and a slip-on will make a Concours a completely different bike.
          Adding the headers will give you more peak power, maybe better power delivery, but you'll probably loose some low end torque. {Particularly if you opt for the big head pipe designs}

Ride safe, Ted
 

chrismpero

Member
Member
Thank you Ted. Main reason I want to replace is one of the tubes on mine is dented. I think it's robbing a little power although I can't confirm. I do know I find it runs out of steam above 110-115MPH, idk if its wind resistance or my fat 230 lb ass lol. Bike only has 20k on it, recent air filter, clean oil, no faults... I already have a MRP flash and know I would need a different one for a full system.
 

The Pope

Member
Member
I have a Full Length Akrapovic Exhaust for a ZX14 on my 2011 C14. The fit with ever so slight muffler hanger extension fabrication for the single sided system. So, look at some Aftermarket Full Length systems for the ZX14's for more options.
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
We play in the twisties, and don't want to go to jail.. so we try to keep it below the ton..
So, I seldom get mine up that high any more.
But know I could whenever I want, even before the flash/headers.

It would take a major dent to kill that much power.
Pretty EZ to remove a dent anyway...

Your best/quickest/cheapest option is the Delkevics.
Not sure your Akrapovic will be direct bolt on though. Do-able, but not a direct fit.
  ie; Most header mid pipes are bigger than ZG-1400 slip-on mid pipes..

Ride safe, Ted
 

chrismpero

Member
Member
I bet that sounds and looks nice Pope!

Ted, Delkevic provides a link pipe for the factory pipe or slip-ons if my research proves right.

The dent makes the pipe looks like it would cut down flow 40-50% by the size of it. I was thinking of bringing my infrared thermometer with me on rides and check the individual temps of the pipes. That might help with a increased back pressure, lack of flow diagnosis.
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
It's possible, but I'm unaware that they sell the mid pipes alone.
  They usually want to sell mid pipe and muffler as a package...

I talked a lot with Delkevic as they developed the ZG-1400 header system.
  It is basically a copy of a OEM ZX-14R system with special mid pipe (single muffler set up), or mid pipes (dual muffler set up).
  (Issues; Pretty big head pipes, cylinders not paired like a ZG)

Important; Their ZG header mid pipes are not the same configuration {bends/diameters} as the stock ZG-14 Header to slip on mid pipe.
For instance;
    On Area P's: the Mid pipe and muffler for OEM system are 2" OD.
                        the Slip-on and muffler for their header is 2 1/4".

Bottom line; The header you purchase may or may not fit your Akrapovic muffler. Do a lot of research...

Ride safe, Ted   
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
I have been sitting on this info, waiting till I have a tune up and ready, but I'm still dealling with heart issues so things move slow for me right now.

  1) I do not recommend the Delkevic header. it is a large tube 4 into 1 with a bifurcating plate. It will work better above 5000 rpm, but I'm an "under the curve" guy for street use, and I don't like sacrificing throttle response and torque down low, at light cruise throttle, if I can help it.

  2) Some may remember this... certainly Connie Rider does... back in 2016 I approached AreaP about building a branded header for me. It would have 1.5" head pipes, be a tri-y, and exit so that you can use the midpipe / slip on you already own. Area P became busy and didn't even release any of their own pipes for a couple years, so that didn't come to pass BUT...

  3) The Black Widow Pipe is EXACTLY what I had discussed with Area P.  I already have one. And have one on my Versys 1000. The build quality for the price is amazing. I will be tuning to it, but I expect it won't be far off of the flashes I currently have. I do have a customer already running the BW header / area p slip on, and my Hammer flash. He's reporting more power coming on at 3500 rpm, and seems very happy with the setup so far.

4) Here's a link to their site https://www.blackwidowexhausts.co.uk/

  5) A great tip - order directly from Black Widow, not ebay. I bought mine through Ebay, it cost 325.00 US and was here in about 5 days. If you order from their site you'll save close to 100.00 US. WHAT A CRAZY GOOD DEAL!  :beerchug: :beerchug:

  Steve
 

horsenuts123

Member
Member
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
I have been sitting on this info, waiting till I have a tune up and ready, but I'm still dealling with heart issues so things move slow for me right now.

  1) I do not recommend the Delkevic header. it is a large tube 4 into 1 with a bifurcating plate. It will work better above 5000 rpm, but I'm an "under the curve" guy for street use, and I don't like sacrificing throttle response and torque down low, at light cruise throttle, if I can help it.

  2) Some may remember this... certainly Connie Rider does... back in 2016 I approached AreaP about building a branded header for me. It would have 1.5" head pipes, be a tri-y, and exit so that you can use the midpipe / slip on you already own. Area P became busy and didn't even release any of their own pipes for a couple years, so that didn't come to pass BUT...

  3) The Black Widow Pipe is EXACTLY what I had discussed with Area P.  I already have one. And have one on my Versys 1000. The build quality for the price is amazing. I will be tuning to it, but I expect it won't be far off of the flashes I currently have. I do have a customer already running the BW header / area p slip on, and my Hammer flash. He's reporting more power coming on at 3500 rpm, and seems very happy with the setup so far.

4) Here's a link to their site https://www.blackwidowexhausts.co.uk/

  5) A great tip - order directly from Black Widow, not ebay. I bought mine through Ebay, it cost 325.00 US and was here in about 5 days. If you order from their site you'll save close to 100.00 US. WHAT A CRAZY GOOD DEAL!  :beerchug: :beerchug:

  Steve

I'll be keeping an eye on this for sure!  Maybe a winter in Nebraska upgrade...  One question, why do all the header manufacturers state that no tuning is required when obviously there will be?
 

2andblue

Member
Member
Christopher said:
Looking into replacing my stock manifold with an aftermarket header. Besides the ZX route we apparently have 3 direct fit choices that I know of, Area P, Delkevic and Black Widow. I would probably be using an Akrapovic slip-on as my muffler.. I've searched and seen opinions on Area p and Delkevic but not Black Widow. Looking into opinions on build quality on any or all of them. Thank you.

AreaP Full system is sweeeeet!  Fit-up was a breeze and performance exceeded my expectations.  I see you want to use a specific slip-on, be informed: AreaP does not sell their headers separate from the mid-pipe and muffler; it’s an all or nothing package with the headers.  Also muffler is specific to the AreaP header flows and is different from their Slip-on so you can’t just immediately flip it as an AreaP slip-on to recoup some $.

As mentioned by some - AreaP price is a bit high but quality of materials, craftsmanship and the full exhaust port to muffler tip custom sheet performs terrific.  This is an entirely new machine!  Flashing the C14 is a prerequisite in the first place and flashing for the AreaP specific fuel mapping is required to gain full performance. 

Yes I would do it all over again.
 

The Pope

Member
Member
Christopher said:
I bet that sounds and looks nice Pope!
Here are two photos....
 

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Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
turbojoe78_MA said:
Steve, I've got a Delkevic mid pipe and 18" CF oval can in the garage rafters.  What would be the advantage of the Black Widow over the stock headers?

aside from weight and no cat in the header, I would say the fact that the head pipe is +3mm  and the tri-y transitions are smooth. It's going to make more power on the dyno, and be great for light throttle riding, too. Eventually I'll get it up on the dyno and we'll get the numbers. It's not going to get to area P power, but it's going to retain the low end / light throttle that the area P loses. "area under the curve" . Steve
 

chrismpero

Member
Member
As long as it makes a hp or 2 more than  stock pipes and retains all of the magic in the MRP flash I'll be happy.  :)
 

chrismpero

Member
Member
Update:

I got a great deal on an Akra slip-on via the FB page. I was on the fence about getting the full system from Black widow anyways but now it's a non issue so now I'll be ordering just the header from them at some point. I've been hesitant as the only flash available for a full system is the AreaP one that i know of. I patiently await a flash for the BW style header full system.

Ride safe, stay safe

Chris
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
Christopher said:
Update:

I got a great deal on an Akra slip-on via the FB page. I was on the fence about getting the full system from Black widow anyways but now it's a non issue so now I'll be ordering just the header from them at some point. I've been hesitant as the only flash available for a full system is the AreaP one that i know of. I patiently await a flash for the BW style header full system.

Ride safe, stay safe

Chris

  I already have guys running a flash for that. contact me when the time comes and you're ready.
 

chrismpero

Member
Member
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
Christopher said:
Update:

I got a great deal on an Akra slip-on via the FB page. I was on the fence about getting the full system from Black widow anyways but now it's a non issue so now I'll be ordering just the header from them at some point. I've been hesitant as the only flash available for a full system is the AreaP one that i know of. I patiently await a flash for the BW style header full system.

Ride safe, stay safe

Chris

  I already have guys running a flash for that. contact me when the time comes and you're ready.

Roger that! I wasn't sure...

Silly question but as far as A/F ratios, the difference in flow between the Akra and BW muffler is probably negligible huh? I'm sure its close to impossible to make a flash for every header/pipe combo...

Thanks!

Chris
 

cuda

Guest
Guest
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
I have been sitting on this info, waiting till I have a tune up and ready, but I'm still dealling with heart issues so things move slow for me right now.

  1) I do not recommend the Delkevic header. it is a large tube 4 into 1 with a bifurcating plate. It will work better above 5000 rpm, but I'm an "under the curve" guy for street use, and I don't like sacrificing throttle response and torque down low, at light cruise throttle, if I can help it.

  2) Some may remember this... certainly Connie Rider does... back in 2016 I approached AreaP about building a branded header for me. It would have 1.5" head pipes, be a tri-y, and exit so that you can use the midpipe / slip on you already own. Area P became busy and didn't even release any of their own pipes for a couple years, so that didn't come to pass BUT...

  3) The Black Widow Pipe is EXACTLY what I had discussed with Area P.  I already have one. And have one on my Versys 1000. The build quality for the price is amazing. I will be tuning to it, but I expect it won't be far off of the flashes I currently have. I do have a customer already running the BW header / area p slip on, and my Hammer flash. He's reporting more power coming on at 3500 rpm, and seems very happy with the setup so far.

4) Here's a link to their site https://www.blackwidowexhausts.co.uk/

  5) A great tip - order directly from Black Widow, not ebay. I bought mine through Ebay, it cost 325.00 US and was here in about 5 days. If you order from their site you'll save close to 100.00 US. WHAT A CRAZY GOOD DEAL!  :beerchug: :beerchug:

  Steve


How do you  feel about ceramic coatings  the headers?

Years ago when I installed the ZX headers I wrapped them with heat tape,

after my Jack Russell tore into my bike chasing lizards ripping off some tape it looks like chit

for that price I'm intrested..
 

The Pope

Member
Member
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
  I already have guys running a flash for that. contact me when the time comes and you're ready.
:hum:
note to self..... Might want to talk with Steve in regards to the differences between the BW full length exhaust vs. the Akrapovic ZX14 full length exhaust........ as in would this new in beta testing BW flash or would the Area P flash be a better flash for my bike which has the Akrapovic ZX14 full length exhaust....
 

boomer

Crotch Rocket
Forum Subscriber
Christopher said:
Thank you Ted. Main reason I want to replace is one of the tubes on mine is dented. I think it's robbing a little power although I can't confirm. I do know I find it runs out of steam above 110-115MPH, idk if its wind resistance or my fat 230 lb a** lol. Bike only has 20k on it, recent air filter, clean oil, no faults... I already have a MRP flash and know I would need a different one for a full system.
The replacement header won't fix that unless that is one major dent.
A stock C14 doesn't start to "run out of steam" until well over 130Mph in OD/6th.
Drop her to 5th and she'll scream all the way to 160+.
And that's with my fat 400lbs a** on my 74k mile 08.  :rotflmao: :motonoises: :great:
With the MRP and an aftermarket muffler the bike should be quite capable of 170+
 

2andblue

Member
Member
Christopher said:
I finally pulled the trigger and ordered the BW header as a birthday present to myself.  :)
Very happy with the AreaP Full System performance throughout entire power-band.  If I were able to ghost ride my previous factory exhaust machine the full AP exhaust configuration would blow its saddle bags off.  You’ll love the improvement!!! 

Unless there is a DRAMATIC performance difference: BW and Delkevic at half the price or less make it very hard to justify the extra money spent on AP.

For sure many are looking to hear your impressions and report. 
 

MAN OF BLUES

Guest
Guest
all in all, it really reduces to a noise induced perception,,,, oh and I say this with knowing the profiles and programs of the C14.  it seems so, but the BUTT dyno, is subjective., and and a dyno really doesn't matter, nor does a mechanical dyno. based on parameters of your own riding habits.
 

chrismpero

Member
Member
I got the BW header installed, time consuming but not bad all n all. It came with a adapter for smaller diameter link pipes but my Akrapovic one fit perfectly. Very nice quality, clear directions, packed well and it got from the UK to Connecticut in 4 days!  With the DB killers out of the Akra its fairly loud, about 95db at idle and cruising with a few short bursts I saw 105db. I have yet to really get on it. Power gains are noticeable tho as I asked Steve upgrade the flash from MRP to MRP w/BW header. I can't wait to go on a extended ride.
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Oh Great...
Now, we 're waiting on a  "from MRP to MRP w/BW header" Flash report.

Just pickin' on ya. 
Go do a long ride and enjoy.

Ride safe, Ted
 

chrismpero

Member
Member
Lol! It runs great, that is all. Also, I would not hesitate to recommend any of his flashes or the BW products.  If you're reading this and have yet to get a flash,  email Steve and get the ball rolling!

I wish! I'm currently sitting in a trailer,  track side at New haven station waiting to service a couple 4k HP  Diesels  :)
 

jim snyder

Member
Member
 
How do you  feel about ceramic coatings  the headers?

Years ago when I installed the ZX headers I wrapped them with heat tape,

after my Jack Russell tore into my bike chasing lizards ripping off some tape it looks like chit

for that price I'm intrested..
[/quote]

Ceramic coated headers significantly reduce heat. When I built the header for my C-10 I had it ceramic coated and I was amazes how much it reduced the heat.
 

chrismpero

Member
Member
I think it would help with the heat externally and MAYBE help a bit with performance but with the engine being so small in cc/ci it might not make a difference like it would with a V8.
 

jim snyder

Member
Member
Christopher said:
I think it would help with the heat externally and MAYBE help a bit with performance but with the engine being so small in cc/ci it might not make a difference like it would with a V8.
When I said C-10, I meant my Concours, and it did make quite a bit of difference.
 

2andblue

Member
Member
Christopher said:
I got the BW header installed, time consuming but not bad all n all. It came with a adapter for smaller diameter link pipes but my Akrapovic one fit perfectly. Very nice quality, clear directions, packed well and it got from the UK to Connecticut in 4 days!  With the DB killers out of the Akra its fairly loud, about 95db at idle and cruising with a few short bursts I saw 105db. I have yet to really get on it. Power gains are noticeable tho as I asked Steve upgrade the flash from MRP to MRP w/BW header. I can't wait to go on a extended ride.

Looking forward to hearing how you like the newly found performance - once you can really get on it.

AREA P Full System greatly improved higher RPM pulls, stock >8K RPM fairly flat - with AREA P the pull is strong / constant up to 10K indicated on tachometer.  Never hit rev limiter but with no indications of letting up I expect pull would continue to red line.

95 dbA idle?  That is significantly louder than AREA P which is 86 - 87 dbA, stock 77 - 78 dbA



 

chrismpero

Member
Member
Looking forward to hearing how you like the newly found performance - once you can really get on it.

Me too!!


AREA P Full System greatly improved higher RPM pulls, stock >8K RPM fairly flat - with AREA P the pull is strong / constant up to 10K indicated on tachometer.  Never hit rev limiter but with no indications of letting up I expect pull would continue to red line.

95 dbA idle?  That is significantly louder than AREA P which is 86 - 87 dbA, stock 77 - 78 dbA

Yes, I was very surprised myself.

[/quote]

 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
2 and Blue and Chris:

    Can either of you outline the differences between the area p header and the black widow header? What can be expected from each, performance wise?

    What criteria did you apply in purchasing your header? What were you trying to accomplish? What were you wanting to gain, and what were you willing to give up?

  Spoiler alert... I know the answers as to what each header does already. I'm trying to find out why people make the choices they do regarding header selection.

  Steve
 

chrismpero

Member
Member
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
2 and Blue and Chris:

    Can either of you outline the differences between the area p header and the black widow header? What can be expected from each, performance wise?

    What criteria did you apply in purchasing your header? What were you trying to accomplish? What were you wanting to gain, and what were you willing to give up?

  Spoiler alert... I know the answers as to what each header does already. I'm trying to find out why people make the choices they do regarding header selection.

  Steve

Differences: BW is a tri-y , Area p is not? Just a guess, honestly don't know.
Expectations: No heat sink, less weight, more power all around.
Criteria:  looked at reviews,  website  and took your advise as you said it was a great choice :)
Trying to accomplish: POWER! Lol
Willing to give up: A few Ruples in my pocket.
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
Christopher said:
Differences: BW is a tri-y , Area p is not? Just a guess, honestly don't know.
Expectations: No heat sink, less weight, more power all around.
Criteria:  looked at reviews,  website  and took your advise as you said it was a great choice :)
Trying to accomplish: POWER! Lol
Willing to give up: A few Ruples in my pocket.

    POWER ... Where in the rpm range, under how much throttle?
     
    Steve
 

chrismpero

Member
Member
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
Christopher said:
Differences: BW is a tri-y , Area p is not? Just a guess, honestly don't know.
Expectations: No heat sink, less weight, more power all around.
Criteria:  looked at reviews,  website  and took your advise as you said it was a great choice :)
Trying to accomplish: POWER! Lol
Willing to give up: A few Ruples in my pocket.

    POWER ... Where in the rpm range, under how much throttle?
     
    Steve

From what little seat time I had I would say every RPM I was at under 5k and less than 50% throttle.
 

2andblue

Member
Member
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
2 and Blue and Chris:

    Can either of you outline the differences between the area p header and the black widow header? What can be expected from each, performance wise?

    What criteria did you apply in purchasing your header? What were you trying to accomplish? What were you wanting to gain, and what were you willing to give up?

  Spoiler alert... I know the answers as to what each header does already. I'm trying to find out why people make the choices they do regarding header selection.

  Steve

Steve Hi, I cannot inform of the differences between the AreaP and BW. 

My Expectation:  Improved performance especially top end.  I was unwilling to give up anything other than a few $$$.

Criteria: High Quality, High Performance Full Exhaust purposefully designed Exhaust Port to Tail Pipe for the C14. - - - Can other systems be refit from other models, sure however I wasn’t willing to try and beat the engineers that are designing this important piece of an engine’s performance.

I landed on the Area P after Market Research, (not many systems meeting my above) Testimonials of others with C14 / Full AreaP and Data from numerous professional tuners showing significant, usable performance gains.

Also Steve a clarification for those reading - AreaP To my knowledge doesn’t offer a header only product. 
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
2andBlue said:
Steve Hi, I cannot inform of the differences between the AreaP and BW. 

My Expectation:  Improved performance especially top end.  I was unwilling to give up anything other than a few $$$.

Criteria: High Quality, High Performance Full Exhaust purposefully designed Exhaust Port to Tail Pipe for the C14. - - - Can other systems be refit from other models, sure however I wasn’t willing to try and beat the engineers that are designing this important piece of an engine’s performance.

I landed on the Area P after Market Research, (not many systems meeting my above) Testimonials of others with C14 / Full AreaP and Data from numerous professional tuners showing significant, usable performance gains.

Also Steve a clarification for those reading - AreaP To my knowledge doesn’t offer a header only product.

    OK, let me ask this... you particularly wanted top end power. Yet you stated that you don't rev the bike over 10k, which is actually 9500 rpm (the tach lies) . So you're not getting the top end power you paid for.  Why are you not running the bike WOT to the limiter? that's what that header excels at.

    You also stated that you're not willing to give up anything. Yet you did give up quite a bit of lower rpm / light throttle response, as a consequence of the large tubes. Have you done any roll ons with other concours from say 3500 rpm to see what I'm talking about?

    Please do not take this as me bagging on the area p pipe or your choice. I'm not, and for peak power, it is the ONLY choice. But that's my point... you're not using it drag racing, or pinning the tach for your adrenaline fix. You're never getting the benefit of what that pipe was built for .

  Maybe you bought it because it showed the highest HP potential on a dyno chart. This is the common way guys select thier HP goodies. Did the big hp # influence your decision that the AreaP would be the best exhaust for your needs?
 
    Thanks,  Steve
 

2andblue

Member
Member
Hello Steve - great conversation!

We will often / frequently be in the 7K to 9.5K RPM range mainly under acceleration then shift to higher gear or depending on tightness of corner to corner stay in same gear and use deceleration of engine braking without need to downshift.

When riding spiritedly (as much as I can get away with) we are rarely below 4.5K - 5K.

Have not tried any roll-ons or any comparison riding with another C14.

We do enjoy the ability to take off at a higher rate of acceleration especially above 5K RPM.  Yes true I am conscious to not hit rev limiter and know I am leaving some on the table.  Have never perceived hitting rev limiter to be a positive event on any other vehicles and have not hit on this machine.

Again great chat Steve.

 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
2andBlue said:
Hello Steve - great conversation!

We will often / frequently be in the 7K to 9.5K RPM range mainly under acceleration then shift to higher gear or depending on tightness of corner to corner stay in same gear and use deceleration of engine braking without need to downshift.

When riding spiritedly (as much as I can get away with) we are rarely below 4.5K - 5K.

Have not tried any roll-ons or any comparison riding with another C14.

We do enjoy the ability to take off at a higher rate of acceleration especially above 5K RPM.  Yes true I am conscious to not hit rev limiter and know I am leaving some on the table.  Have never perceived hitting rev limiter to be a positive event on any other vehicles and have not hit on this machine.

Again great chat Steve.

  When you are running 7-9500, are you accelerating full WOT or less than WOT ? And what gear are you in? To consider this, I think it's typical to be in a lower gear and use a lot of rpm, but that doesn't necessarily mean a lot of throttle. You can get to a lot of rpm without WOT, particularly in the first 3 gears or so.

  Just so you know, I'm gathering Data for a project. There are no right or wrong answers. Just didn't want you to think the tone was "adversarial" which so far it seems you haven't and I'm glad for that.
  Steve
 

The Pope

Member
Member
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
  When you are running 7-9500, are you accelerating full WOT or less than WOT ? And what gear are you in? To consider this, I think it's typical to be in a lower gear and use a lot of rpm, but that doesn't necessarily mean a lot of throttle. You can get to a lot of rpm without WOT, particularly in the first 3 gears or so.

  Just so you know, I'm gathering Data for a project. There are no right or wrong answers. Just didn't want you to think the tone was "adversarial" which so far it seems you haven't and I'm glad for that.
  Steve
With you (Steve) just gathering data for a project, I felt that I should chime in.....  :)

2011 C14 with ZX14 TB's. I'm currently running one of your (Steve's) earlier flashes and a PC-V w/Autotune (<- due to the ZX14 TB's).

Exhaust: Akrapovic Titanium Full Length ZX14 Exhaust

Differences: It's lighter that either of the other two that's being discussed.
Expectations: More free flowing exhaust & Weight Reduction
Criteria:  reviews, website (mainly from ZX14 riders)
Trying to accomplish: Weight Reduction, Upper RPM Performance
Willing to give up: Some Low RPM Torque

I do WOT up to the rev limiter in the lower gears when accelerating and where conditions allow.

I have my PC-V Autotune Maps setup for separate maps for each gear per discussions with Steve a few years ago.
  -The 1st-3rd gears are more performance/acceleration orientated.
  -4th is mostly in the 14:1 with some cells set similar to the 1st-3rd values.
  -5th & 6th are a little leaner below 3500 RPM for Highway Cursing.

Just wanted to mention this a Steve is gathering data for a project and hope that whatever he comes up will be a better setup for my bike, as I'd like to remove the PC-V & Autotune.
 

2andblue

Member
Member
Good discussion adder Pope!

Steve for myself, more frequently when in the 7 - 9500 1st and 2nd gear and varying between 40% - 100% throttle depending on level of escape velocity, road contour.  2nd and 3rd usual acceleration onto highway and same throttle percentages.  Then nobody around 4th and 5th occasional tests of land speed 60% - 100% throttle.

Above accounts for probably 15% of our ride time (at most) rest is spent in cruise / sport tour mode which is usually 4 - 6000 and on average probably 15% - 40% throttle.

Love the bike, glad to have the extra on top end available when we want it and from my perspective the loss of low end you describe is not discernible and top end performance clearly enhanced. 

:great: Everyone Steve’s doing a project - chime in as relevant. :great:

Thanks Steve.
 

horsenuts123

Member
Member
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
2andBlue said:
Hello Steve - great conversation!

We will often / frequently be in the 7K to 9.5K RPM range mainly under acceleration then shift to higher gear or depending on tightness of corner to corner stay in same gear and use deceleration of engine braking without need to downshift.

When riding spiritedly (as much as I can get away with) we are rarely below 4.5K - 5K.

Have not tried any roll-ons or any comparison riding with another C14.

We do enjoy the ability to take off at a higher rate of acceleration especially above 5K RPM.  Yes true I am conscious to not hit rev limiter and know I am leaving some on the table.  Have never perceived hitting rev limiter to be a positive event on any other vehicles and have not hit on this machine.

Again great chat Steve.

  When you are running 7-9500, are you accelerating full WOT or less than WOT ? And what gear are you in? To consider this, I think it's typical to be in a lower gear and use a lot of rpm, but that doesn't necessarily mean a lot of throttle. You can get to a lot of rpm without WOT, particularly in the first 3 gears or so.

  Just so you know, I'm gathering Data for a project. There are no right or wrong answers. Just didn't want you to think the tone was "adversarial" which so far it seems you haven't and I'm glad for that.
  Steve

I reserved a full area p system, with no obligation, thinking all the other systems were cheap and inferior in regards to quality and performance.  Has anyone done a side by side pros and cons comparison of the main systems available?  I currently have Steve MR flash on an otherwise stock machine and would like to pick up that top end power, but if I can do it for ~$600 instead of ~$1,000 that's a no brainer. 
 
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