currently out of stock for black round stainless
ever since i did ivans reflash, heat temps have gone down considerably. i removed my heat louvers and don't plan on reinstalling them. this is still is a good idea thoughI used heat tape 8 years ago, I would heat coat now, Living in S FL anything to lower heat.
https://www.jet-hot.com/articles/20...mic-coat-your-exhaust-headers-and-turbo-parts
Here's Ted's bike with the Muzzy's.Here's Ted's bike with Area P mufflers.
I asked Bud to post some old photo's for me as they had disappeared from the original posting.I went with the ZX-14 Headers and basically built my own mid pipes and mounts. I use Area P mufflers.
Lotsa work to get it the way I wanted it...
If you do the headers, a Flash is almost mandatory.
NOTE: Many have discovered that just doing a Flash and a slip-on will make a Concours a completely different bike.
Adding the headers will give you more peak power, maybe better power delivery, but you'll probably loose some low end torque. {Particularly if you opt for the big head pipe designs}
Ride safe, Ted
Guessing you are budgeting time for the valve check before any dyno work?suppose to get with ivan for full dyno at end of season.
still deciding. i should do it first but...Guessing you are budgeting time for the valve check before any dyno work?
I went too far on my first valve check and there was a difference in performance afterward - everything was tight... Now adjusted properly, heck just turning the engine over manually there was a noticeable difference! Note; There were no zero clearance valves but plenty was getting out the exhaust before compression...
what was your mileage on first valve check?
Absolutely Ted there is a significant size difference.Earlier, we were talking about the diameter of the head Pipes on several different header systems.
Below is a photo (That I stole).
It clearly shows the difference in head pipe size.
Area P vs Stock
The difference in Diameter is approx. 3/8" [27%] .
But, the difference in square area is far greater.
ie; Square area difference is approx. .94 In3 [64%] }
View attachment 29421
Ride safe, Ted
i would have bought one but did not like their waiting list policy. plus black widow will sell you their header separately. that a plus in my book. area p is ultra high quality. i know this.Absolutely Ted there is a significant size difference.
Recently Kerry Bryant (President from AreaP) and I had a conversation regarding design of AreaP Full Exhaust (FE) for the C-14 and I offered him there is a growing movement away from AreaP (FE) here at COG to BlackWidow (FE) due to the pipe diameter size and loss of performance.
Kerry is standup dude and noted he has not a large amount of familiarity with the BW product, does not underestimate them and is impressed at their price-point if their product is of equal quality to AreaP...
Kerry then dedicated some time and effort to correct, address / explain the perception of losses of torque are incorrect, and the benefits of the AreaP Full Exhaust with proper tuning are balanced and across the entire throttle range. Significant research went into the product design to not have a system that benefited only top end but throughout the entire RPM and throughout the entire throttle opening.
I am happy with the performance and feel what Kerry is advising is correct. Got nothing else though - no comparison, etc.
Absolutely Ted there is a significant size difference.
Recently Kerry Bryant (President from AreaP) and I had a conversation regarding design of AreaP Full Exhaust (FE) for the C-14 and I offered him there is a growing movement away from AreaP (FE) here at COG to BlackWidow (FE) due to the pipe diameter size and loss of performance.
Kerry is standup dude and noted he has not a large amount of familiarity with the BW product, does not underestimate them and is impressed at their price-point if their product is of equal quality to AreaP...
Kerry then dedicated some time and effort to correct, address / explain the perception of losses of torque are incorrect, and the benefits of the AreaP Full Exhaust with proper tuning are balanced and across the entire throttle range. Significant research went into the product design to not have a system that benefited only top end but throughout the entire RPM and throughout the entire throttle opening.
I am happy with the performance and feel what Kerry is advising is correct. Got nothing else though - no comparison, etc.
da, tri yShould you ever get another opportunity to speak with Kerry, please remind him of our meeting to have a Shoodaben branded header built for my company. What I proposed is in design and pipe sizing what the Black Widow is. We even discussed cylinder pairing, IE sequentail vs non sequential in a triY configuration. Kerry stated that though he knows some drivers / riders could claim to notice a difference, he said he could never quantify it on a dyno. The reason I wanted to build this header was because the Area P header, while a great option, really is more for higher rpm and lots of throttle. It DOES give away light throttle torque... it can't help it with that much header volume. I was looking for a header that made better midrange but didn't lose any light throttle response, and also exited at the same place and diameter as stock so everyone with a slipon can just buy the header and use the midpipe they already owned.
The BW header is NOT in the quality bracket of the area p. Area P is using expanding primaries, and is using a very light and thin wall construction throughout. The BW header is being popular because of price point, and it works. Imagine... had it worked out, this pipe would have been available in 2016 instead of 2020, but Kerry was moving operations from Cali to FL and actually stopped production of his own concours pipes in the meanwhile, unavailable for probably 2 years or slightly more. Although Kerry expressed interest in the project, I always wondered if he saw it as competing with his Area p branded header. We specifically discussed marketing as a collaboration between Shoodaben Engineering and Area P which I felt would help both businesses.
I know what Concours owners want, but I'm not a pipe builder. As you can now see, it would have been a very popular option.
Steve
i wonder how you use that at the dragon?Breaking this out;
I've been looking at Dyno plots of the Area P & (others).
I know that Dyno plots are done at WOT and do not reflect how a header works at partial throttle, but their the only thing we can actually compare.
So, I compared the plots, and I think I see:
Area P headers "start" making more torque after approx. 3200 RPM.
,,,,,,,,,,,and they deliver more peak HP.
But: a stock header, and my (OEM ZX-14 header) make more/smother torque below 3200 RPM's.
,,,,,,,, (Area P has a serious torque "hick-up" at about 4500-5200 RPM.)
,,,,,,,, At that time, my (OEM ZX-14 header) seems to deliver slightly more torque.
,,,,,,,, and my (OEM ZX-14 header) has a smoother torque curve thru-out the plot.
,,,,,,, but, it makes less peak HP..
,,,,,,, In fact, after 6000 RPM's the Area P torque/power curve jumps away..
Ride safe, Ted
Stay in a lower gear for the ultimate in stronger launching and braking. Watch out for the wheelie!i wonder how you use that at the dragon?
Wow! Which flash? Best I can muster is 41.6 as indicated on the cluster. 2k since I reset everything.i pulled off a 46.1 mpg. best so far after headerswap. up in the mountains getting prepped for parkway run
That's about what I get with a Delc can and MRP flash. Problem is I seldom ride 60. More like 75/80 and wind. Still average 36 .We average 37MPG with the mix of spirited riding and more reasonable riding.
We can and have easily average 51-53 MPG if we keep to back HWY’s and low 60’s MPH.
Full AreaP and associated tuning.
I just can’t stop twisting the throttle though.
Update; At the national I was finally able to compare the different styles of headers. (Small tube vs big tube header)Like 2andblue, I have nothing to compare with.
I've never been with anyone that had an Area P system on their bike.
I fully expect a bike with Full Area P system to ride away from me in a Roll-on test..
(See Roll-On discussion)
I've heard of Area P's quality and what others say about them.
Bottom line; I don't know of anything negative about Area P's system.
I'm not a tuner. I feel that a bike tune, should be a match to a riders style.
In the twisties, I am not a high RPM/WOT/Racer. I'm a low RPM/Partial throttle/Smooth rider.
ie; I prefer a higher gear as I go thru the turn.
,,,,,,,I rely on torque, not high RPM HP to pull me thru.
,,,,,, I prefer to smooth thru a turn, not blast thru...
And so, I selected a header that {I feel} delivers more of what I want.
My Research/Reasoning;
I talked to several Header manufacturers, I talked a lot with Steve, a bit with Ivan, and I've done what study I could.
I talked to many others that have headers.
Lastly; I looked at my bank account.... {gloom}
So, I built my own system; Using a OEM 2006 ZX-1400 header, and 2 Area P Mufflers.
Lots of work!!
NOTE: At that time, Black Widow and Delkavic systems were not offered, and Full Area P systems were out of stock.
Ride safe, Ted
ivans, but when i first installed the bw header my mileage was crappy in april at deals gap. maybe different riding conditions/throttle hits? impossible to really hit it superhard in blue ridge area. theres just too many cars. i will update again as we leave maggie valley and head for home.Wow! Which flash? Best I can muster is 41.6 as indicated on the cluster. 2k since I reset everything.
good deal. filling up shortly. been raining the whole dayOn my bike, I never reset the MPG reading. (so I can see the running average)
As most of you know, I trailer to the events and soooo, most of my miles are at the events. ie; mostly twisties
Mine stays at about 44 mpg. {I have Steve's Mountain Runner Premium Flash and ZX-14 headers}
Ride safe, Ted
45.5mpggood deal. filling up shortly. been raining the whole day
I didn't reset it per se, i checked the battery terminals for tightness and obviously had to disconnect the grounds to get there. That reset everythingOn my bike, I never reset the MPG reading. (so I can see the running average)
As most of you know, I trailer to the events and soooo, most of my miles are at the events. ie; mostly twisties
Mine stays at about 44 mpg. {I have Steve's Mountain Runner Premium Flash and ZX-14 headers}
Ride safe, Ted